Hua Hin land office regulations

[malcolminthemiddle]

If you travel alot, like we do, having the wife have the same surname, is a major advantage.

[seasidesurfer]

Hi.
Just been reading this very interesting post, as, like the rest of you I had to sign away any right to the land we have just purchased to build our retirement home.
The next phase is to build a house but I have reservations about the leval of protection I will have in the event of my wife dying before me, so, my plan was for my Wife to give me a 30 year lease.
Would this be legal. We are going to see a lawyer during our next visit to HuaHin in January.
Seasidesurfer

[Super Joe]

A lease is a 100% legal under the law, but the law states certain provisions for you but others have to be added by you to further protect you.
Like:
Your right to buy the land/extend the lease period in line with any future law changes.
You are entitled to renew for an additional 30 year period, at any time, should you wish to sell the property (some land owners will allow you to put that in)
Your right to sub-lease the lease to a.n.other
Succession: The lease rights transfer to your heirs.
Your right of ownership to any structures on the land, make sure you get the house (separate entity to the land) registered in your name at land office.
Options to extend the lease 30+30 years.

There is debate about whether some of these additional provisions are enforceable under the law, but put them in anyway.

SJ

[johnnyk]

Look into a lifetime usufruct, too.

[Jockey]

Hi.
Just been reading this very interesting post, as, like the rest of you I had to sign away any right to the land we have just purchased to build our retirement home.
The next phase is to build a house but I have reservations about the leval of protection I will have in the event of my wife dying before me, so, my plan was for my Wife to give me a 30 year lease.
Would this be legal. We are going to see a lawyer during our next visit to HuaHin in January.
Seasidesurfer

As has been mentioned, the main drawback of buying land in a Thai spouse's name is that the land becomes the sole and personal property of the Thai spouse, not common property. The risks when entering into an agreement in Thailand with your Thai spouse, like a lease or usufruct, can be found in section 1469 of the Civil and Commercial code which states:

"Any agreement concluded during marriage between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided at any time during the marriage or one year after dissolution of marriage, provided that the rights of a third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby"

Under Thai law the lease can be terminated by the Thai spouse without reason. A lease or usufruct does not offer security for the spouse paying for the land, if the lease or usufruct is set up for the purpose to protect in the case of divorce or separation. Do not think if you have a lease from your wife for 30 years you are protected for 30 years.

[dtaai-maai]

Your right of ownership to any structures on the land, make sure you get the house (separate entity to the land) registered in your name at land office.

Does this have any effect once the lease has expired?

[Nereus]

Your right of ownership to any structures on the land, make sure you get the house (separate entity to the land) registered in your name at land office.

Does this have any effect once the lease has expired?

The legal advice that I received is that an alien can ONLY have a building / house registered as his / her own property IF the building permit is issued in his / her own name. If you buy an existing building you can not register it in your own name.

[Super Joe]

The legal advice that I received is that an alien can ONLY have a building / house registered as his / her own property IF the building permit is issued in his / her own name. If you buy an existing building you can not register it in your own name.

I believe you can register the house in your name, even without a building permit in your name. The land office accept a contract of sale as proofof ownership as well as building permits.

Under Thai law the lease can be terminated by the Thai spouse without reason. A lease or usufruct does not offer security for the spouse paying for the land, if the lease or usufruct is set up for the purpose to protect in the case of divorce or separation. Do not think if you have a lease from your wife for 30 years you are protected for 30 years.

Without any additionl provisions, above and beyond the Civil & Commerical Codes, in a lease or usufruct agreement I think this is so. But lawyers state that the extra provisions they put in a lease/usufruct agreement will protect you from the spouse terminating the agreement, as they add provisions that do affect a third party.
Example: Right to sub-lease, you can if you are unsure about your marriage sub-lease to a third party from day 1.

SJ

[seasidesurfer]

Thankyou Nereus. The point you have made about having the Building Permit issued in my name is very important.
So, it looks like the way for me to go is to get a lifetime Usafruct for the land and then have the Building Permit issed in my name. On completion have the house registered in my name.
Is anything easy in Thailand?
Seasidesurfer.

[BaaBaa.]

Is anything easy in Thailand?

[Jockey]

I think this thread is very useful and helpful, congrats to the contributers! I would like to add that one of the problems with buying houses in Thailand is a large percentage of houses do not have building permits. A lot of Thai owners don't bother getting permission to build their house on their land. As for new developments, some houses dont have building permits, some have building permits in the builders company's name and some put the building permit into the customers name. I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at the amount of houses that don't have building permits in Thailand but it might be well over 50%.

As usual, I believe Super Joe is right in that a foreigner can own a second hand house if you have proof of contract of sale and register the house as a separate entity to the land at the land office, but the trouble is if you buy second hand and there is no building permit then I think it would be impossible to separate the house from the land as a separate entity.

[buksida]

The one thing I have gleaned from this thread I started is reinforcement of my initial thoughts on buying anything in this country: don't do it unless you can afford to lose it!

[STEVE G]

I’ve heard of a case where the whole development has been completed with no building permits applied for and where the owners only got them afterwards if they demanded them and they were applied for retrospectively.
Unfortunately many foreign owners had no idea that they even needed such a permit and consequently don’t have one.

[Super Joe]

Jockey gives good advice as he points out things that helps the buyer despite him being in the business. Integrity I think they call it. We don't always see eye-to-eye on stuff but he gives honest advice.

- You should never buy property here without a good lawyer, if you do YOU are putting yourself at serious risk.
- IF you are not yet married it can be a totally different ball game and a good lawyer will structure you differently prior to marriage. Make sure you do a pre-nuptial agreement, usufructs are better if you are not married to the provider, see Jockeys post at 11.29am. I've learned that you can't just read stuff as it doesn't always apply to your circumstance.

- If you have a 'sale and purchase contract' with the developer HE has to have building permit in his name, not you.
- If you have a 'construction contract' YOU have to obtain permit, with developers help, your responsibility not his, you are employing the builders.

- You should never buy a house without getting the building permit, even if it is 5th hand.
- You don't need permit in your name, it's great if you have, but the developer can get it on your behalf & you can still register house in your name.
- If you bought a new house half built the developer already has permit in his name (supposedly).
- Building permits are issued without fuss after completion if standard build, a few quid needed.
- Why on earth developers do not get building permits I'll never know, they are FREE.

- You don't need to register house as under law whoever own the land, owns the buildings on it. But it is recommended for various reasons to have it registered in your farang name.
- Your company or Thai can register land & you can register the house in your name 150 years later ... if she lets you

There's so many scenario's for different circumstances that you have to get proper advice to be structured best.

SJ

[dtaai-maai]

Jockey gives good advice as he points out things that helps the buyer despite him being in the business. SJ

Don't be so blushingly modest, SJ - word has it you may somehow be involved in the business yourself.

Personally I think you, Jockey and all the others involved in the trade who post honest advice on this forum deserve a round of applause - in the absence of an agony aunt to deal with personal relationships, I can't think of a bigger stumbling block than buying a house or having one built.