Getting a tourist visa or initial short-term visa isn't the problem. It's when you want to stay for longer periods these days that it gets difficult.
As Dawn implies, it is those of us who have long-term commitments here who worry about whether or not we will still be able to continue our stay here in the future.
It was never easy in the first place. In the days before computers, you had to sit through long interviews while the interviewer woud write - in longhand - details of you, your wife, what you did, where would you stay... You'd then be going around the different ministries in an around Bangkok with frequent visits to the translation office - it would take weeks sometimes.
It took more than a year from the time I applied for PR to get it. And you needed at least five years unbroken stay with the requisite tax receipts before they would even consider you. They also had a quota - one immigration officer at the time told me they were always over quota with western people - and that the quota and difficulty in getting the long-term visa was to discourage people like the peanut-sellers et al from getting in.
It really picked up in the Toxin era as another avenue to boost his revenue, which is when the cost of everything rose exponentially.
I've been here almost twenty years. Yes, there have been changes, but I do expect to stay another twenty years. I don't expect it to be easy, but the country I left is not the same country I remember, so to me, this IS the future.
Future for Ex Pats in Thailand???
Buksi dawn hogus i agree it isnt as easy for the genuine as it used to be and for the genuine it SHOULD be easier than it is. For instance retirement and marriage visas why the 90 day reporting? once a year should be sufficiant.
As for other visas unfortunately as i have said before, the genuine suffer (collateral damage)because the %#@holes crooks and dishonest (those working or doing business on visas that do not allow it) have as always kicked the golden goose to death and the govt as with all govts use sledgehammer rules to crack a nut.
We ourselves are in a small way to blame always quick to spread a loophole a fiddle a small porky etc to get round the immigration and thus opening the door to the merchant bankers (slang sic) to come flooding in
I will say though too many farangs are too quick to blame the thai govt for the visa crackdown when it was most certainly at the demand of mr GW Bush in the guise of the USA and Richard Armitage who are still conducting the orchestra behind the scenes.
I can see some possible changes to non O and tourist visas coming (the requirement to PROVE finances from abroad) because already people who were on monthly visa runs are getting round it and so the status quo has only marginally changed I also see more undercover Imm staff being employed (happening already) to root out the dishonest and rule/lawbreakers which IMHO would be good for thailand
On property and land i do see some changes coming that will require farangs to have some mindset alterations some will! some wont! some trying to profit from the property boom could get their fingers burnt also IMHO good for thailand
As for the govt only wanting rich farangs (hardly surprising) the UK govt had a mindbogglingly high figure for Hong Kong citizens holding UK passports to come to the UK for immigration so it is hardly a new or soleley thai requirement and farangs dont hold thai passports.
I am however optimistic for the future because to use an analogy one can only tighten a screw so far and then it breaks and i dont think the thai govt or its people want to break it i also think it cannot be tightened much further without a real danger of it breaking and i think the thais are too clever to do that
As for other visas unfortunately as i have said before, the genuine suffer (collateral damage)because the %#@holes crooks and dishonest (those working or doing business on visas that do not allow it) have as always kicked the golden goose to death and the govt as with all govts use sledgehammer rules to crack a nut.
We ourselves are in a small way to blame always quick to spread a loophole a fiddle a small porky etc to get round the immigration and thus opening the door to the merchant bankers (slang sic) to come flooding in
I will say though too many farangs are too quick to blame the thai govt for the visa crackdown when it was most certainly at the demand of mr GW Bush in the guise of the USA and Richard Armitage who are still conducting the orchestra behind the scenes.
I can see some possible changes to non O and tourist visas coming (the requirement to PROVE finances from abroad) because already people who were on monthly visa runs are getting round it and so the status quo has only marginally changed I also see more undercover Imm staff being employed (happening already) to root out the dishonest and rule/lawbreakers which IMHO would be good for thailand
On property and land i do see some changes coming that will require farangs to have some mindset alterations some will! some wont! some trying to profit from the property boom could get their fingers burnt also IMHO good for thailand
As for the govt only wanting rich farangs (hardly surprising) the UK govt had a mindbogglingly high figure for Hong Kong citizens holding UK passports to come to the UK for immigration so it is hardly a new or soleley thai requirement and farangs dont hold thai passports.
I am however optimistic for the future because to use an analogy one can only tighten a screw so far and then it breaks and i dont think the thai govt or its people want to break it i also think it cannot be tightened much further without a real danger of it breaking and i think the thais are too clever to do that
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Just read all of the above topic and find it very interesting that no-one has mentioned good old 'blighty' in the conversation.
One of the main reasons, if not THE main one we came to Thailand is because of all the changes in society (and taxes!!) in England, all of which seemed to go against the british residents in favour of all the immigrants, whether legal from the EU or illegal.
Having only been here 6 weeks now, we've gone through all sorts of red tape (and still are), getting the house set up, changing the structure of our company, getting a driving licence and work permit etc, all of which seem to cost an extraordinary amount of time and money.
However, one thing is for certain... the Thai government look after the Thai people. I don't like it, but I do understand it, and if the British Govt. had done the same, maybe we would have thought twice about moving.
Any comments?
Paul
One of the main reasons, if not THE main one we came to Thailand is because of all the changes in society (and taxes!!) in England, all of which seemed to go against the british residents in favour of all the immigrants, whether legal from the EU or illegal.
Having only been here 6 weeks now, we've gone through all sorts of red tape (and still are), getting the house set up, changing the structure of our company, getting a driving licence and work permit etc, all of which seem to cost an extraordinary amount of time and money.
However, one thing is for certain... the Thai government look after the Thai people. I don't like it, but I do understand it, and if the British Govt. had done the same, maybe we would have thought twice about moving.
Any comments?
Paul
You haven't answered my question have you Burger:
Do Thais have to come back to Bangkok to get another visa after they've been working and living in England for several years? Didn't think so.
"Nipping over to Hull" every time your visa runs out isn't really a viable option for most of us, its expensive, time consuming, and really shouldn't be necessary.Instead of me reeling off a list can you give me ONE example of government action that has made it easier or less expensive for foreigners in the past 5 years be it starting a business, obtaining a visa, extending a visa, paying tax, getting a work permit, purchasing a property .......
Do Thais have to come back to Bangkok to get another visa after they've been working and living in England for several years? Didn't think so.
Last edited by buksida on Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
-
Wanderlust
- Legend
- Posts: 2862
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
- Location: Hua Hin
Paul,
I, for one, did not leave the UK because of immigrants or the governments immigration policy, so I can safely say that a different approach in those areas would not have made me stay. The big difference in Thailand is that there is no welfare system that immigrants can plunder, so I have never seen why it is necessary to make it hard for less wealthy foreigners to stay here; all the time they are here they are spending money, whether it is big or small amounts, all of which benefits the country, and more often than not is going to the poorer sections of Thai society who are working in the shops, restaurants, bars and guest houses they frequent. This is as opposed to wealthy foreigners, who will stay in the top class hotels (mostly owned by foreign companies) or buy properties that are kitted out with imported items, and shop for luxury items that are also imported. Of course some of their eagerly anticipated money finds it's way into Thai hands, but I can guarantee that more money comes from all the average Joes than the high flyers.
I have nothing against a government protecting it's citizens, but I do not believe that the Thai government has been doing that in the policies it has pursued; I really don't understand what successive governments have been trying to do in fact, except to line their own pockets, and why Thaksin needed to do that is totally beyond me when he was so wealthy already. The only protection the Thai people have is HM the King, and all us foreigners should be hoping, praying and shouting 'Long Live The King!'
I, for one, did not leave the UK because of immigrants or the governments immigration policy, so I can safely say that a different approach in those areas would not have made me stay. The big difference in Thailand is that there is no welfare system that immigrants can plunder, so I have never seen why it is necessary to make it hard for less wealthy foreigners to stay here; all the time they are here they are spending money, whether it is big or small amounts, all of which benefits the country, and more often than not is going to the poorer sections of Thai society who are working in the shops, restaurants, bars and guest houses they frequent. This is as opposed to wealthy foreigners, who will stay in the top class hotels (mostly owned by foreign companies) or buy properties that are kitted out with imported items, and shop for luxury items that are also imported. Of course some of their eagerly anticipated money finds it's way into Thai hands, but I can guarantee that more money comes from all the average Joes than the high flyers.
I have nothing against a government protecting it's citizens, but I do not believe that the Thai government has been doing that in the policies it has pursued; I really don't understand what successive governments have been trying to do in fact, except to line their own pockets, and why Thaksin needed to do that is totally beyond me when he was so wealthy already. The only protection the Thai people have is HM the King, and all us foreigners should be hoping, praying and shouting 'Long Live The King!'
I don't see I have to answer your question as I wasn't claiming things have been made easier or cheaper. I was asking about your claim about all these clampdowns on us.buksida wrote:You haven't answered my question have you Burger:
"Nipping over to Hull" every time your visa runs it isn't really a viable option for most of us, its expensive, time consuming, and really shouldn't be necessary.Instead of me reeling off a list can you give me ONE example of government action that has made it easier or less expensive for foreigners in the past 5 years be it starting a business, obtaining a visa, extending a visa, paying tax, getting a work permit, purchasing a property .......
Do Thais have to come back to Bangkok to get another visa after they've been working and living in England for several years? Didn't think so.
A trip home to re-new a non-imm 'O' is not a recent clampdown as far as I know.
Burger
Last edited by Burger on Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Not sure I really disagree with you, but I still can't see all the clampdowns being imposed on us ?Wanderlust wrote:Paul,
I, for one, did not leave the UK because of immigrants or the governments immigration policy, so I can safely say that a different approach in those areas would not have made me stay. The big difference in Thailand is that there is no welfare system that immigrants can plunder, so I have never seen why it is necessary to make it hard for less wealthy foreigners to stay here; all the time they are here they are spending money, whether it is big or small amounts, all of which benefits the country, and more often than not is going to the poorer sections of Thai society who are working in the shops, restaurants, bars and guest houses they frequent. This is as opposed to wealthy foreigners, who will stay in the top class hotels (mostly owned by foreign companies) or buy properties that are kitted out with imported items, and shop for luxury items that are also imported. Of course some of their eagerly anticipated money finds it's way into Thai hands, but I can guarantee that more money comes from all the average Joes than the high flyers.
I have nothing against a government protecting it's citizens, but I do not believe that the Thai government has been doing that in the policies it has pursued; I really don't understand what successive governments have been trying to do in fact, except to line their own pockets, and why Thaksin needed to do that is totally beyond me when he was so wealthy already. The only protection the Thai people have is HM the King, and all us foreigners should be hoping, praying and shouting 'Long Live The King!'
Burger
Nos
i agree to many farangs seem too quick to forget where they come from it must be the weather boiling their brains and it has got a lot worse in the UK since i left 9 years ago.
I dont sunbathe and remember only too well why i left the UK which is why i come from mars with my views and why i am so eternally greatful to be here in the LOS
I also know the hoops and hurdles the UK put on normal thais just to allow them to get on a plane to go there on holiday let alone immigrate (i personally helped over 200 thais to get student visas not easy)
I have spent many miserable hours waiting for an asian/sub continent UK immigration official in croydon to tell a thai friend sorry but NO extension halfway through her/his studies
I agree with Buksi Dawn WL and Hogus however, once in the UK it seems a lot easier for the Thais than us that have been here a long long time. minimum reporting year visas and marriage being far easier than here and business and property are a given.
We are still treated many years down the track as if we just came down the airplane steps and as time goes on you will come to that view yourself
I will also say the reason blighty is not mentioned is because we are here in the LOS and our problems are here in the LOS not the UK and nothing that happens in blighty is going to help us in our daily lives here
Burgher posting to Hull from here wont fly anymore you will not have an exit stamp and the immigration officials are very very hot on that.I felt that one personaly getting my retirement visa 3 years ago.
i agree to many farangs seem too quick to forget where they come from it must be the weather boiling their brains and it has got a lot worse in the UK since i left 9 years ago.
I dont sunbathe and remember only too well why i left the UK which is why i come from mars with my views and why i am so eternally greatful to be here in the LOS
I also know the hoops and hurdles the UK put on normal thais just to allow them to get on a plane to go there on holiday let alone immigrate (i personally helped over 200 thais to get student visas not easy)
I have spent many miserable hours waiting for an asian/sub continent UK immigration official in croydon to tell a thai friend sorry but NO extension halfway through her/his studies
I agree with Buksi Dawn WL and Hogus however, once in the UK it seems a lot easier for the Thais than us that have been here a long long time. minimum reporting year visas and marriage being far easier than here and business and property are a given.
We are still treated many years down the track as if we just came down the airplane steps and as time goes on you will come to that view yourself
I will also say the reason blighty is not mentioned is because we are here in the LOS and our problems are here in the LOS not the UK and nothing that happens in blighty is going to help us in our daily lives here
Burgher posting to Hull from here wont fly anymore you will not have an exit stamp and the immigration officials are very very hot on that.I felt that one personaly getting my retirement visa 3 years ago.
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Worming your way out of it again I see, well how is this for starters:
Quadrupling of visa fees several years ago.
Increase on minimum taxable salary for foreigners.
Enforcement of 90 day check in.
Increase on minimum financial requirement for support visa.
Increase on minimum financial requirement for retirement visa.
Increase on requirements for business visa.
Clampdown on VOA stamps.
Loopholes closed for property purchase using foreign owned companies.
Increase in overstay fine.
Increase in failure to report 90 day fine.
Restrictions in number of obtainable tourist visas.
Increase in number of arrests and checkups.
Clampdown on teachers and qualifications.
Tightening of foreign investment policies.
Granted these are just off the top of my head but if you can't see a pattern emerging here then you should clean those rose tinted glasses mate. (Please don't force me to wade through the internet finding links for all of these - they have all happened).
I have no problem with the above to rid the place of undesirables if only they did a little good for the genuine among us - and that is my point.
Quadrupling of visa fees several years ago.
Increase on minimum taxable salary for foreigners.
Enforcement of 90 day check in.
Increase on minimum financial requirement for support visa.
Increase on minimum financial requirement for retirement visa.
Increase on requirements for business visa.
Clampdown on VOA stamps.
Loopholes closed for property purchase using foreign owned companies.
Increase in overstay fine.
Increase in failure to report 90 day fine.
Restrictions in number of obtainable tourist visas.
Increase in number of arrests and checkups.
Clampdown on teachers and qualifications.
Tightening of foreign investment policies.
Granted these are just off the top of my head but if you can't see a pattern emerging here then you should clean those rose tinted glasses mate. (Please don't force me to wade through the internet finding links for all of these - they have all happened).
I have no problem with the above to rid the place of undesirables if only they did a little good for the genuine among us - and that is my point.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
It's really nice to read, that all is running so brilliant for Burger! But his statements remind me also a little bit on the flower-power-feeling of the hippie-culture a couple of decades ago. (Just make love, enjoy your joint and the world is running fine!...All others are just pitiable members of the establishment.... 
)
However, all joking aside!
For those of us, which are living in TH for many years it’s pretty clear and can't be ignored that the regulations for long-term-visitors, so called expats and investors got harder and harder more.
It doesn't matter, that most of us even fit these aggravate criteria.
May be one time in future we also can't do this anymore; especially if TH is going on to create more and more restrictive laws for foreigners.
Sorry Burger, but TH isn't the easiest place to obtain a long-term-visa anymore!
On other topics it was pointed out already, that i.e. Malaysia, Cambodia and the Phils offers more comfortable solutions for foreigners, which have the idea to settle down there.
Of course, Paul is true, that TH try to protect their people.
IMO this isn't wrong, and all other southeast-Asian countries are trying to do the same. But for a couple of years the "Thai-way" seems to be a mixing of xenophobic, overcharging and overestimation only.
I.e., it can't be correctly to travel half around the globe to get another long-term-visa for a country, which doesn't need to protect his self in that way, because of a not existing welfare-system as we have it in the EU.
It also can't be correctly, that foreigners who want to do business or to invest in properties are forced to accept uncertain legal regulations, but have to pay the same or even more money than the locals.
The lack of ideas to protect the own interests, but to give investors and expats the feeling to be welcome, too, is TH's greatest deficit nowadays.
Hope, that Sarge's optimistically view of a future life in TH becomes true, but I doubt it.
Let's sit and wait, and keep a back door wide open!
)However, all joking aside!
For those of us, which are living in TH for many years it’s pretty clear and can't be ignored that the regulations for long-term-visitors, so called expats and investors got harder and harder more.
It doesn't matter, that most of us even fit these aggravate criteria.
May be one time in future we also can't do this anymore; especially if TH is going on to create more and more restrictive laws for foreigners.
Sorry Burger, but TH isn't the easiest place to obtain a long-term-visa anymore!
On other topics it was pointed out already, that i.e. Malaysia, Cambodia and the Phils offers more comfortable solutions for foreigners, which have the idea to settle down there.
Of course, Paul is true, that TH try to protect their people.
IMO this isn't wrong, and all other southeast-Asian countries are trying to do the same. But for a couple of years the "Thai-way" seems to be a mixing of xenophobic, overcharging and overestimation only.
I.e., it can't be correctly to travel half around the globe to get another long-term-visa for a country, which doesn't need to protect his self in that way, because of a not existing welfare-system as we have it in the EU.
It also can't be correctly, that foreigners who want to do business or to invest in properties are forced to accept uncertain legal regulations, but have to pay the same or even more money than the locals.
The lack of ideas to protect the own interests, but to give investors and expats the feeling to be welcome, too, is TH's greatest deficit nowadays.
Hope, that Sarge's optimistically view of a future life in TH becomes true, but I doubt it.
Let's sit and wait, and keep a back door wide open!
Couple of things. Firstly Buksida was probably referring to a multi-entry Non Imm O visa, rather than single entry. The latter are still easily obtainable in neighboring countries, but you've got to have a good reason for getting one - as always. Multiple entries, of any sort of visa, are pretty much impossible to obtain, except back in your home country. Hence that old trip to Hull, Brisbane etc etc. This is a fairly recent development.
This has impacted big time on a lot of long-term stayers, especially those who were applying for the multi entries on the basis of marriage or looking after a Thai child, rather then retirement or working. Plenty of people trucked on down to Penang armed with marriage cert and copy of wife's ID card and got a multi-entry Non O. No proof of funds necessary. This is no longer allowed. Single entry, yes, but the authorities want that extended in Thailand for a year within the 90 day entry allowance. OK, fine again, and 400k in a Thai bank account was not too bad, but that's no longer applicable (unless you're grandfathered in). It's overseas income of 40k a month. That suits me, but sure as heck dosn't for a lot of people. These are just two of the visa laws that changed that have worked against farangs here. It's not just been the 30 day thing. Families are in danger of being split apart or having to relocate out of the country. Not ideal is it?
And the UK is easy to enter for a Thai. It took my wife 3 days to get her 6 mth visa last year. If we'd wanted a settlement (2 year visa), I'm pretty sure she would have got it. After that, its ILR and thankyou very much. Oh yes, and she can work straightaway on a Settlement Visa - not tourist though. Easy, if she's married to a Brit.
Thailand offers me none of those priveleges. It's something that I've put up with for 9 years now. I'm not necessarily complaining, but I certainly agree with other posters who see this country as becoming more insular and exclusive.
Ces't la vie.
This has impacted big time on a lot of long-term stayers, especially those who were applying for the multi entries on the basis of marriage or looking after a Thai child, rather then retirement or working. Plenty of people trucked on down to Penang armed with marriage cert and copy of wife's ID card and got a multi-entry Non O. No proof of funds necessary. This is no longer allowed. Single entry, yes, but the authorities want that extended in Thailand for a year within the 90 day entry allowance. OK, fine again, and 400k in a Thai bank account was not too bad, but that's no longer applicable (unless you're grandfathered in). It's overseas income of 40k a month. That suits me, but sure as heck dosn't for a lot of people. These are just two of the visa laws that changed that have worked against farangs here. It's not just been the 30 day thing. Families are in danger of being split apart or having to relocate out of the country. Not ideal is it?
And the UK is easy to enter for a Thai. It took my wife 3 days to get her 6 mth visa last year. If we'd wanted a settlement (2 year visa), I'm pretty sure she would have got it. After that, its ILR and thankyou very much. Oh yes, and she can work straightaway on a Settlement Visa - not tourist though. Easy, if she's married to a Brit.
Thailand offers me none of those priveleges. It's something that I've put up with for 9 years now. I'm not necessarily complaining, but I certainly agree with other posters who see this country as becoming more insular and exclusive.
Ces't la vie.
Burgher oh yee of forked tongue
Quoting you! Posted Fri mar 09,2007 4:37am
Thailand is the easiest place in the worlld to obtain a visa in my opinion, just post your application firm and 90 quid off to Hull and you get a non-imm "O" in less than a week.No questions asked.
Quoted with spelling mistake and " because i cant find a single "
Leaving out the you must leave the country to do it is similar to telling only half the story which you do regularly
But denying you said it on the same thread and after Dawn also pulled you is the first blatant porky i can lay squarely at your door
come on buck up you are loosing your grip
Quoting you! Posted Fri mar 09,2007 4:37am
Thailand is the easiest place in the worlld to obtain a visa in my opinion, just post your application firm and 90 quid off to Hull and you get a non-imm "O" in less than a week.No questions asked.
Quoted with spelling mistake and " because i cant find a single "
Leaving out the you must leave the country to do it is similar to telling only half the story which you do regularly
But denying you said it on the same thread and after Dawn also pulled you is the first blatant porky i can lay squarely at your door
come on buck up you are loosing your grip
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Hogus i am only optimistic because as i see it they will either go completely Pol Pot ( i dont see that) or it will except for some minor twitches stay as it is i completely concur with buksi Dawn Lomu WL You and all the posters that we have gone through a large clampdown over the last 4 years but we are still here yes it most certainly is more difficult now but i dont see any more they have left they can do other than just throw us all out on our arses (i dont see that either)
I dont see democracy on the horizen i still see some potential property problems I also see that farangs are going to have to adjust their mindsets and i see that those that dont will have problems.
Or another way to put it is i think we are at the bottom and the only way now is up (there are those that think we havent reached the bottom yet)
i just think they are incorrect and hope i am
I dont see democracy on the horizen i still see some potential property problems I also see that farangs are going to have to adjust their mindsets and i see that those that dont will have problems.
Or another way to put it is i think we are at the bottom and the only way now is up (there are those that think we havent reached the bottom yet)
i just think they are incorrect and hope i am
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand