Future for Ex Pats in Thailand???

[BEARHUG]

Comparing the mood of a few years ago to now I'm getting a much more negative impression regarding Thailand from other westerners.
Not so much as in daily annoyances or frustrations but in overall optimism about the future.
Do others share this feeling that people seem to be holding their breath and waiting, or am I just talking to too many cynics?
Nobody seem's that positive, this is true Ex Pats from other destination's like Bangkok and Pattaya and is a general view over the last year.

[Burger]

I think a lot of it is people not understanding this issues.

Of the 5 major law changes that occured and could have affected foreigners here, all 5 were first reported as being negative and the end of the world was nigh, but when the facts came out all 5 excluded foreigners living here (apart from the 30 day tourist visa-running folk, who merely had to change their visa status).

But the mud has already been thrown and stuck in people's minds.

Re: The bombings in the South and the couple in Bangkok, not sure many farangs have batted an eye-lid, we didn't when the IRA had their campaign in the UK.

That's just my opinion.

Burger

[sargeant]

My god i agree with burgher heaven help me or is this a carefully set booby trap
While i still think some of it is not over i dont feel any fears myself longterm i said there would be some collateral damage but as burgher points out it has been relatively small so far and i agree with him i dont see any large damage although with certain issues farangs may have to have a mindset change and some may not be able to adjust and will leave but that will be by personal choice not govt interdiction

God i am feeling dizzy

[buksida]

Personally I agree with the OP - regardless of whether law changes and clampdowns affect tourists, investors, expats or people in the real estate market they are still clampdowns and they are targeting ALL foreigners.

Until the authorities learn to stop tarring all foreigners with the same dirty brush it will continue to get harder to live here for everyone - unless of course they are multi-millionaires.

You only really notice it when you've lived here consistently for a number of years, new arrivals won't see a thing.

[DawnHRD]

As Buksida knows, he expresses the same views on this (virtually word for word) as me. Maybe it comes from being in almost the same circumstances: not rich, not retirees, trying to make a contribution & bring up our families. Somehow, IMO, we seem to be less desirable than those that sit around all day sunbathing, drinking & generally contributing nothing (except money).

[buksida]

generally contributing nothing (except money)

Sadly it seems that this is all they (govt) are interested in.

[Burger]

Buksi,

Can you give me some examples of these clampdowns on foreigners living here ? I'm asking this genuinely, obviously I only concentrate on one field, and there's others I don;t know about.

I set up a company (in under two weeks) taking up 30 minutes of my own time, I got a work permit (within 2 weeks) taking up about 2 hours of my time, Business visa involved one trip to immigration, solicitor done the other visits etc etc. It all seems quite easy to me (unless you want to be a foreign developer )

Burger

[STEVE G]

I tend to agree with Bearhug, Buksida and Dawn, if you are planning a future living in a country, what you require is stability with whatever system is in place so that you can make plans.
Seeing as how nobody at the moment seems to have any idea when Thailand is going to return to a democratic form of government there is certainly a lack of stability.

[Wanderlust]

I can think of a number of examples of what could be called a clampdown on foriegners, mostly related to visas, over the last 4 or 5 years; this isn't to say that the actions taken in these areas are wrong, just that in comparison to before it is now harder for a number of foriegners to continue staying here. The examples I am thinking of are the change made about 4 years ago (I think) which meant that the required salary (or rather the tax payable in affect) to obtain a work permit was increased sharply (doubled if my memory is correct) - this affected large numbers of teachers and I think they altered the rules afterwards for them; increases across the board in visa fees, again about 4 years ago; the increased amount of income/ lump sum in a Thai bank required for the yearly extension on a retirement visa (again doubled I think); an increase in the same for an extension of a marriage visa (almost doubled), followed last year by the abolition of the lump sum possibility (although offset by being able to count the partners income and not needing it to be in a Thai bank); the unavailability of multiple entry tourist visas in anywhere except your home country (for about 2-3 years now) and the increasing difficulty for people to get multiple entry non immigrant visas anywhere except their home country; and as already debated to death on here the myriad of changes to company law which are still to be really tested as regards how they will affect foriegners long term; hopefully Burger will be right about this over time, but it still has the feel of 'targeting' foriegners.
Having said all of that, as buksida has said, those coming here for the first time won't really perceive any of this, and Thailand is still a great destination whether for long term staying or holiday; however it is undeniable that the screw has been tightened over the last few years. If it gets rid of the 'undesirables' then I am all for it, but when it hurts people like Dawn then I am totally against it. I think the expression that fits is 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater'.

[buksida]

Buksi,

Can you give me some examples of these clampdowns on foreigners living here ?

I think Wander has covered a lot of it.

Instead of me reeling off a list can you give me ONE example of government action that has made it easier or less expensive for foreigners in the past 5 years be it starting a business, obtaining a visa, extending a visa, paying tax, getting a work permit, purchasing a property .......

To counter your experience over the past 7 years I have had 3 different work permits two B visas and one M visa and every year it has become progressively more expensive, required more documents, and taken far more time. These things should get easier the longer you stay here but they don't by any means.

[sargeant]

WL,Buksi and dawn The clampdowns you speak off have happened exactely as you say and i agree 100% with what you say.
The original OP was talking about pessimism for the future that people feel
i agreed with burgher because as i say although i think there may be some tweaking here and there and some further small collateral damage i dont see any large scale actions beng taken by this or any future govt to really clampdown on farangs any further.
IMHO anyone obeying the laws of this country should not have any problems
Those that are not! whether that be the land act, FB act, visa laws or criminal law! well i rest my case and my sympathy for them rates zero there are enough warnings on this web site alone let alone all the other methods of information out there

I will say dawns is an exceptional case and i feel a way will be found at least i sincerely hope so i believe there are good thai officials out there who can see it is a just case

[buksida]

I agree with you sarge so why cant they simply make it a little easier for us good, law abiding, tax paying, family raising farangs instead of treating us like criminals when we want to extend our visa or try to do a little extra work to support our loved ones?

This is a pet gripe of mine and it won't go away - I honestly can't see things improving so back to topic - yes as an expat I'm pretty pessimistic about future life in Thailand so am constantly ensuring there is a back door for me and my family for when the day comes that some bureaucrat in an ivory tower somewhere in Bangkok decides that I'm not good enough for this land as I don't meet their latest criteria.

[hogus]

In the last 13 years I saw so many changes of laws & regulations, which make it more and more uncomfortable for foreigners to stay or invest here, that I can't count it anymore.
Of course, TH is still a nice country, but it isn't a No. 1-destination in Southeast-Asia anymore to settle down or to do business.

I'm totally agreed with the statements of Buksida and others, which aren't very optimistically about future life in TH.
In the moment I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel...and, if there will be really a light someday, than it's from an oncoming train - for sure!

[Burger]

So am i right in reading that the clampdowns have been mainly related to visas ?
Thailand is the easiest place in the world to obtain a visa in my opinion, just post your application firm and 90 quid off to Hull and you get a non-imm 'O' in less than a week. No questions asked.

If your'e married to a Thai, going for a business visa or retired its just as easy.

No-one have any examples of all thses horendous clampdowns on us ??

Sorry but you sound like a load of moaning minnies (whatever that means, my Nan used to say it).

Burger

[DawnHRD]

So am i right in reading that the clampdowns have been mainly related to visas ?
Thailand is the easiest place in the world to obtain a visa in my opinion, just post your application firm and 90 quid off to Hull and you get a non-imm 'O' in less than a week. No questions asked.

If your'e married to a Thai, going for a business visa or retired its just as easy.

No-one have any examples of all thses horendous clampdowns on us ??

Sorry but you sound like a load of moaning minnies (whatever that means, my Nan used to say it).

Burger

Oh, for goodness sake, Burger, don't be a twit! You think we're all imagining things? Maybe a case of mass paranoia? If things are so easy for you, I'm glad. If you're trying to convince people buying your properties that everything in the garden is rosy & sweet smelling, up to you & them. As most of them will be affluent retirees, you are, to a degree, correct. But please give us leave to talk about our own feelings about our precarious situations. I should imagine we know these better than you.

As we all have visas etc now & are all still here, then I presume none of us are talking about now. We are talking about the future as per OP. And our take on the future, based on the recent changes in the past, is that it will get more & more difficult for all expats, but particularly those like Buksi, WL, hogus and myself. My visa is due up in May. I will go back to Hull and anticipate no problems in getting this one. But to bring up my son I need to get one a year for the next 13 years. Do I anticipate it being easy for the next 13 years? No way...and that's what worries me. Not this May, but 2 or 3 years down the line.

If you think we're being moaning minnies, can I suggest you're being a Pollyanna about all this? You really do need to start looking at things from others' points of view, sometimes.

BTW, I just re-read your post. You're not suggesting people post their passport to Hull from here, are you? You are suggesting that we go home to UK & post it from there? Because, as we all know, the first way is illegal & would be the easiest way to get you on the next plane home permanently, if you were caught!