PARTY WALLS

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Brit Jim
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PARTY WALLS

Post by Brit Jim »

Hi

Anyone know the score on Party walls between house & Land plots?

We have house sitting on Land with two party walls either side of it. Land Plots either side of my house have been empty for years but looks as though we will have new houses either side of us shortly.

If we EVER get new neighbours whats the responsibilty on the two party walls. Who owns what or are they shared with the new neighbours? Nothing evident on the chanote just a Land plot.

My gut feeling is they are shared. No one is bothered until they collapse!!

Just curious??

:cheers:
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johnnyk
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by johnnyk »

Generally speaking both sides are responsible for upkeep. Try to find out the PRECISE location of the walls. They may not be right on the property line but on one plot or the other.
Hope you get good neighbours.
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Brit Jim
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by Brit Jim »

I know it's dangerous to assume but I presumed the walls were just a division between two properties and land. The land inside SHOULD hopefully reflect area size on the chanote. I'm sure if I spoke to the developer he would support this claim but realise this means nothing in legal terms.

What's the best way to check exact land details? Is it GPS cordinatons on the chanote if they exist?? Maybe a regular occurrence where the actual land plot sold does not truely reflect the one on the chanote. Owners take the word of the developer and do land searches by legal professionals check this, doubt it very much.

Maybe I can do a quick land grab before the Issan workers pitch up and start building. The dog would be very happy with this!!

:laugh:
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by TypicallyTropical »

You should make sure they are party walls to begin with. A simple survey of the property would determine whether the wall is on one property or on the property line making it a party wall. If the latter than there should be a recorded party wall agreement signed by both property owners.
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PeteC
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by PeteC »

I have party walls as shown in the below pic. The higher wood divider is mine as I was there before any other houses built and put them up. They're installed on my half of the upper ledge. This allows the other property owner room to put up something himself if he doesn't like what I've done.

If you have a good neighbor he should be willing to maintain his side of any divider you've erected on the wall as it's benefiting him as well concerning privacy and security. If not, just paint both sides yourself when needed. I haven't met one yet who wouldn't let you over onto his property to paint if it saves him money. :roll: Pete :cheers:
wall.jpg
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by margaretcarnes »

What a swish water tank Pete!

But back to the question - as Lippy might be aware - the UK standard for party walls/fences is that each property (where they adjoin) is allocated the wall/fence on one adjoining side only. So in a row of properties each house will legally own only one boundary wall/fence, apart from the house at the end which will have 2.
The individual ownership of each boundary is defined by which side the support posts are.

This is simplifying things because there will also be times when a property adjoins at the rear with yet another wall - like mine, (and god knows whose wall THAT is!) But these things are clearly set out in the property deeds.
As Pete says - erecting a fence/wall just within your boundary line is clearly your responsibility. But if the original developers construction is still there I would say you still have responsibility for it one way or another (and beware the neighbour taking it down and falsly 'extending' their property.)
You are right to be a little concerned IMO because these things can blow up into full scale neighbour battles. EG - one of my neighbours has planted a thick hedge and plans to remove the small boundary fence soon, which I'm not happy about because we will lose the defined boundary and his garden will merge with mine. But it's his fence - end of story. Depends on the neighbour of course.
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by PeteC »

I don't think the UK should be that different than the USA in that all property has a small 6" concrete pad with a brass disc in the center at each corner of the property. This is done by regulation when the official, original survey and deeds were issued. Many times you'll also see a piece of steel rebar sticking up next to the disc that's used to attach a string between corners to measure the property and confirm boundaries. Of course I've never seen same here. Pete :cheers:
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by lomuamart »

We had an issue with one of our party walls last year as a neighbour was renovating his property and wanted to brick up the whole length. It already was up to a height of 4 feet or so.
I wasn't happy with that and our owner pointed out to the neighbour that the ownership of the wall actually ran down right through the middle of the width of it. Therefore, he couldn't get the width of a breeze block cemented in securely. We came to an amicable arrangement and I was happy that the proposed Great Wall of Thailand now dosn't now block out light and wind.
I'm not saying that this will be case for the OP, but it might be worth checking out.
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by hhfarang »

When we built our house we actually had the outside edge of our walls located on a line 20 centimeters inside our property line so that we have total control of the them. If the neighbor wants to use that 20 centimeters of our land and take advantage of our (2 meters high, 20 centimeter thick, with decorative molding along the top edge) wall then they are welcome to do so but we did not finish the outside of the one side and back that face neighbor properties so that would be up to them if they didn't want to stare at cement blocks and mortar all day. Otherwise any modifications to the height or otherwise would have to be done with our approval.
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by crazy88 »

DSCF8953.jpg
DSCF8954.jpg

Be careful with this one. Also check restrictions on what you can build and how close to the property line both public and private. The land office will come out and check your land for a couple of thousand baht and reposition your markers if they have been disturbed. For those who have not seen one here is a chanote marker. The wall behind it is on the neighbours land. Had the wanted to they could have prevented us from painting it, or even rendering it as it is their property. The square blue one is the old marker from when the land was NSK3. The two properties next door are building a dividing wall straight down the property line sharing costs 50/50 and looking after their own side. The wall joins mine with a column in the centre of a panel so they offered me the choice of a decorative curve to match my wall height which is 50 cm lower. Nice of them but it is behind a hedge so I won,t see it anyway.

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Brit Jim
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by Brit Jim »

margaretcarnes wrote:What a swish water tank Pete!

But back to the question - as Lippy might be aware - the UK standard for party walls/fences is that each property (where they adjoin) is allocated the wall/fence on one adjoining side only. So in a row of properties each house will legally own only one boundary wall/fence, apart from the house at the end which will have 2.
The individual ownership of each boundary is defined by which side the support posts are.

This is simplifying things because there will also be times when a property adjoins at the rear with yet another wall - like mine, (and god knows whose wall THAT is!) But these things are clearly set out in the property deeds.
As Pete says - erecting a fence/wall just within your boundary line is clearly your responsibility. But if the original developers construction is still there I would say you still have responsibility for it one way or another (and beware the neighbour taking it down and falsly 'extending' their property.)
You are right to be a little concerned IMO because these things can blow up into full scale neighbour battles. EG - one of my neighbours has planted a thick hedge and plans to remove the small boundary fence soon, which I'm not happy about because we will lose the defined boundary and his garden will merge with mine. But it's his fence - end of story. Depends on the neighbour of course.
Yes in the Uk very clear. I live in a terrace of housing and know exactley which wall I own. Makes things much simpler!

I think most people in Thailand would rightly or wrongly assume that all dividing walls between properties are shared. Where there is empty land either side of a property as in my case then to some degree we are free to build the wall higher. I guess the issue occurs when the new residents move in if they object to the height/ design of it.

Some of the extensions I have seen residents have errected wooden fences from inside supporting posts so its on their land and the original wall top width
remains untounched. For me this defeats the object as it still means people can walk on the top of the wall easily jumping into the garden.

Interesting point about the supporting posts. I have heard this mentioned a few times now that they establish ownership of the wall if their on your land.
Anyone else heard about this?

Anyway thanks for the posts some good advice and interesting topic. I guess the bottom line comes down to your neighbours and being amical and flexible. Hopefully I will have a few more years of blissfull peace!!

:rasta:
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Brit Jim
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Re: PARTY WALLS

Post by Brit Jim »

hhfarang wrote:When we built our house we actually had the outside edge of our walls located on a line 20 centimeters inside our property line so that we have total control of the them. If the neighbor wants to use that 20 centimeters of our land and take advantage of our (2 meters high, 20 centimeter thick, with decorative molding along the top edge) wall then they are welcome to do so but we did not finish the outside of the one side and back that face neighbor properties so that would be up to them if they didn't want to stare at cement blocks and mortar all day. Otherwise any modifications to the height or otherwise would have to be done with our approval.
Great Idea. I cant believe I missed this one. School boy error. If we ever build a new place I may have to pirate this one!!!

:cheers:
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