Having spent some time in HH, naively trusting too many people as it has turned out, in particular a lawyer there - I now am in need of advice/recommendation.
I returned to UK (for medical reasons - ongoing, and as such cannot travel back there) and left POA with a HH lawyer whom I thought I could trust. Property sold - money to his account (and stop shouting all of you - I know, what a prat I was assuming that there was an equivalent code of conduct regarding lawyers and client accounts) but it was very, very stupid of me.
As you will have guessed, the short version is that he has made off with a significant sum from the proceeds of my house sale, and won't reply to phone calls and emails - months now - and (quite rightly) he assumes that I don't have the money to pursue this through the Thai legal system). I am guessing that he is assuming that I will overlook the one million baht-plus he still has of mine.
I therefore need any advice at all, for example: of a decent and honest Thai lawyer who isn't best buddies with this 'lawyer' who can, at reasonable cost, attempt to use the 'Thai way of doing things' to get it out of him.
Or any other useful ideas. Please don't go down the road of pointing out what an idiot I was - far too trusting, should have known better, etc. - I know all of that. I have spent a long time kicking myself I assure you. Right now, I just want to get my money back if at all possible. If I can't achieve that, then at least I want to go to all lengths possible to ensure that this man's reputation is widely known. Cold comfort I know, and sounding very vindictive - but after several months of trying to do this the 'Thai way', I am still penniless. Lifetime of savings he has of mine, and I am hitting the bread line back in UK.
All contributions will be gratefully received. Thanks folks.
Need to find an honest lawyer
Spitfire - how correct - and thanks for tactfully saying: "What a prat!"
It would just restore a little bit of my faith in human nature if I could find just one honest person there who wasn't out to 'scam-a-ferang', and who could actually assist.
Whilst I am trying to keep light of it, the financial impact of this has been significant for me. That sum of money was/is part of my life-line - achieved from a lifetime of working honestly.
Furthermore, knowing what has happened to me and the extent to which I was taken in by him, and knowing that this 'lawyer' has charge of many 'ferang' accounts, it should at least ring alarm bells for other such potential 'idiots' as myself there in HH. I know I can't name him here, due to the forum rules and the potential litigation matters that could follow.
I would, however, appreciate any supportive advice that anyone could offer. I have spent months trying to be reasonable and patient, but finally, even I, have to accept that 'total dishonesty' is at the heart of all of the bull-sh** excuses that I have received.
It would just restore a little bit of my faith in human nature if I could find just one honest person there who wasn't out to 'scam-a-ferang', and who could actually assist.
Whilst I am trying to keep light of it, the financial impact of this has been significant for me. That sum of money was/is part of my life-line - achieved from a lifetime of working honestly.
Furthermore, knowing what has happened to me and the extent to which I was taken in by him, and knowing that this 'lawyer' has charge of many 'ferang' accounts, it should at least ring alarm bells for other such potential 'idiots' as myself there in HH. I know I can't name him here, due to the forum rules and the potential litigation matters that could follow.
I would, however, appreciate any supportive advice that anyone could offer. I have spent months trying to be reasonable and patient, but finally, even I, have to accept that 'total dishonesty' is at the heart of all of the bull-sh** excuses that I have received.
I feel badly for you Wobit. Something like this shouldn't happen to anyone. I know what I would like to do, but I can't say for fear of being jailed.
I hope someone on here with some influence or connections will PM you so you can discuss particulars with him or her.
Good luck and our thoughts are with you. Pete
I hope someone on here with some influence or connections will PM you so you can discuss particulars with him or her.
Good luck and our thoughts are with you. Pete
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Couple of thoughts:
1) If he is not an officially registeter lawyer (or whatever the term is) and just has a small practice - I'd forget it he'll be long gone come court appearance time.
2) If opposite of above then go for it with the understanding that it will take up years of your time and money. Also I personally would take into account concern for my and my families safety.
3) I would only consider using one of the many long-established, some 100 years plus, Bangkok law firms. Get your cheque book ready.
Sorry to hear about your situation and good luck with it.
SJ
1) If he is not an officially registeter lawyer (or whatever the term is) and just has a small practice - I'd forget it he'll be long gone come court appearance time.
2) If opposite of above then go for it with the understanding that it will take up years of your time and money. Also I personally would take into account concern for my and my families safety.
3) I would only consider using one of the many long-established, some 100 years plus, Bangkok law firms. Get your cheque book ready.
Sorry to hear about your situation and good luck with it.
SJ
Last edited by Super Joe on Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My thanks - Pete (Prcsscct). I know what you mean about 'what you would like to do'. I have been there in my mind several times - and that is coming from a very mild and tolerant person I assure you.
I just need to find a cheap way to try and get the money out of him, and if that fails, a safe way to ensure that this man gets his just rewards. They say: "What goes around comes around," but I have been so upset by all of this that I need now to move on to ensure that the 'come around' part happens in my lifetime.
The British Embassy in BKK suggested reporting him to the Thai Law Society. Has anyone any experience of that? From reading a few posts on ThaiVisa forum, it appears that I may not get too far there anyway! Right now all I have is a loose-loose situation it appears - along with no money of course.
I just need to find a cheap way to try and get the money out of him, and if that fails, a safe way to ensure that this man gets his just rewards. They say: "What goes around comes around," but I have been so upset by all of this that I need now to move on to ensure that the 'come around' part happens in my lifetime.
The British Embassy in BKK suggested reporting him to the Thai Law Society. Has anyone any experience of that? From reading a few posts on ThaiVisa forum, it appears that I may not get too far there anyway! Right now all I have is a loose-loose situation it appears - along with no money of course.
The British Embassy also have a list of their recommended lawyers - you probably know this already.
I consulted one years ago over a quite separate matter and found them not too bad and very reasonable, price wise, for an hour's consultation.
If I'd needed them to appear on my behalf in court, it would have got extremely expensive though.
I consulted one years ago over a quite separate matter and found them not too bad and very reasonable, price wise, for an hour's consultation.
If I'd needed them to appear on my behalf in court, it would have got extremely expensive though.
-
malcolminthemiddle
- Guru
- Posts: 611
- Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:56 pm
- Location: Here,there and everywhere
Malcolm-I-M - I have a range of documentation, some of it via said lawyer directly, albeit most of it via the purchaser's side and those there in HH who have already tried to assist. I do have sufficient however - I believe - to show that his actions have been nothing short of totally dishonest. I am his client, I have proof that he received the money from the purchaser, and I also have proof - via my lack of email communication from him, that he has refused to reply to me since November of last year.
I had, at that point, realised that he was being totally dishonest. I thus sent an email to say that if I didn't hear from him, I would be compelled to consult another lawyer to pursue this matter/my money.
His response to that - and his last email to me (November 2008) - came via a psuedonym email account - not his own (which actually went into my spam box and I nearly deleted). It said, in essence, "Give me time - until next March, because if you don't and take this to court, I can keep it running, which will cost money." When March came and nothing more, I again wrote to him but got nothing back.
As I say, I have not heard from him since November despite several pleading emails and with others there in HH trying to mediate and discuss it with him on my behalf. Those trying to assist me have also had the bull-sh*t excuses and lies, just causing more delays. It is now late June, and still nothing. What would you be thinking at this stage, and what would you be doing? That is where I am. I don't know where to go from here. I can't ask friends there to pursue him for obvious safety reasons. Thus, any ideas anyone, please?
I had, at that point, realised that he was being totally dishonest. I thus sent an email to say that if I didn't hear from him, I would be compelled to consult another lawyer to pursue this matter/my money.
His response to that - and his last email to me (November 2008) - came via a psuedonym email account - not his own (which actually went into my spam box and I nearly deleted). It said, in essence, "Give me time - until next March, because if you don't and take this to court, I can keep it running, which will cost money." When March came and nothing more, I again wrote to him but got nothing back.
As I say, I have not heard from him since November despite several pleading emails and with others there in HH trying to mediate and discuss it with him on my behalf. Those trying to assist me have also had the bull-sh*t excuses and lies, just causing more delays. It is now late June, and still nothing. What would you be thinking at this stage, and what would you be doing? That is where I am. I don't know where to go from here. I can't ask friends there to pursue him for obvious safety reasons. Thus, any ideas anyone, please?
To me his above statement is clearly blackmail, sent from an email address difficult or impossible to trace back to him directly. I hope you kept it though as evidence. PeteWobit wrote:......and his last email to me (November 2008) - came via a psuedonym email account - not his own (which actually went into my spam box and I nearly deleted). It said, in essence, "Give me time - until next March, because if you don't and take this to court, I can keep it running, which will cost money."......
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Yes, Pete, I have kept it. But again, how do I prove it was him? He signed it: "You know who am I."
Thanks for your support, and I am glad that you too saw it as a threat to me. Not a response you woul expect from someone who truly felt remorse or guilt for spending that money - my money. This man is a lawyer???????? I am his client, and this is how he communicates?
As I have said before, and I know - this man 'lawyer' holds many of the accounts of HH ferangs.
I can't name him, but some of you may need to know for your own peace of mind - he explained to a friend of mine there (who tried to sort it for me, with him, at the end of last year) was to say that it was his intention to increase the annual charges he made to clients to undertake their yearly accounts. The planned rise in charge was to double it. That way he would have the money by March of this year to repay me. Imagine how that made me feel, knowing that many of you would be potentially reimbursing my due coffers because of what he has 'stolen'!
Thanks for your support, and I am glad that you too saw it as a threat to me. Not a response you woul expect from someone who truly felt remorse or guilt for spending that money - my money. This man is a lawyer???????? I am his client, and this is how he communicates?
As I have said before, and I know - this man 'lawyer' holds many of the accounts of HH ferangs.
I can't name him, but some of you may need to know for your own peace of mind - he explained to a friend of mine there (who tried to sort it for me, with him, at the end of last year) was to say that it was his intention to increase the annual charges he made to clients to undertake their yearly accounts. The planned rise in charge was to double it. That way he would have the money by March of this year to repay me. Imagine how that made me feel, knowing that many of you would be potentially reimbursing my due coffers because of what he has 'stolen'!
Some questions that may be pertinent .
Was there an agent involved in the sale ?
Has the property been legally transferred to the new owner ? Something that would not normally happen until ALL monies had been paid .
Do you have records of all monetary transactions between the lawyer and the purchaser ?
As you must have either had a lease or Thai people with a share of the property/company what are their positions ?
Do you have all relevant contracts regarding the sale ?
Hope this is helpful food for thought and good luck .I can recommend good law firms that would pursue your case properly but they are not cheap .
Crazy 88
Was there an agent involved in the sale ?
Has the property been legally transferred to the new owner ? Something that would not normally happen until ALL monies had been paid .
Do you have records of all monetary transactions between the lawyer and the purchaser ?
As you must have either had a lease or Thai people with a share of the property/company what are their positions ?
Do you have all relevant contracts regarding the sale ?
Hope this is helpful food for thought and good luck .I can recommend good law firms that would pursue your case properly but they are not cheap .
Crazy 88
I can only express my sympathy for you, I do not have any useful recommendations. But I wonder what would have happened had it been a farang treating a Thai that way. Then again I know; the farang would be found in a ditch with a bullet in his head. Is this lawyer really still in business in HH??
A friend is only one click away
Lung Per - thank you, but the answer to your question regarding whether he is still there - sadly, yes - with a large number of fernag clients - with so few knowing what he has done.
I would, if I could, totally expose him, not just to make myself feel better, but to duly warn all others there who I know are using him. I am sure he will manage general accounts as necessary - but just don't do what I have done, trust him to handle any money of yours. Thai lawyers clearly do not have client accounts. I was totally stupid for not realising such. I assumed a code of conduct applicable there, as we are used to in a slightly less corrupt society.
Whilst I may get nowhere with what has happened to me, at least I hope that it will help to put you guys on alert. This peson has a v.good reputation in HH. So all, be on your guard. He comes complete with the expected Thai smile, reassuring words., and even has the audacity to tell you: "You can trust me because my reputation is important to me."
So much for the integrity behind that statement - one that I foolishly believed.
But my thanks again for your kind thoughts and wishes.
I would, if I could, totally expose him, not just to make myself feel better, but to duly warn all others there who I know are using him. I am sure he will manage general accounts as necessary - but just don't do what I have done, trust him to handle any money of yours. Thai lawyers clearly do not have client accounts. I was totally stupid for not realising such. I assumed a code of conduct applicable there, as we are used to in a slightly less corrupt society.
Whilst I may get nowhere with what has happened to me, at least I hope that it will help to put you guys on alert. This peson has a v.good reputation in HH. So all, be on your guard. He comes complete with the expected Thai smile, reassuring words., and even has the audacity to tell you: "You can trust me because my reputation is important to me."
So much for the integrity behind that statement - one that I foolishly believed.
But my thanks again for your kind thoughts and wishes.
Welcome to HHAD Wobit, while we sympathize with your predicament we must remind you of our terms and conditions which forbid 'naming and shaming' individuals or companies on the public forum without legal evidence to back up your claim.Wobit wrote: I would, if I could, totally expose him, not just to make myself feel better, but to duly warn all others there who I know are using him. I am sure he will manage general accounts as necessary - but just don't do what I have done, trust him to handle any money of yours.
Thanks for your understanding.