Tax residency in Thailand and taxing overseas income

[Stevepiraq1]

We are all confused with this but unless you live an extravagant life here the implications are I believe low.
If you can prove you have already paid tax on what your "earned" overseas, then the implications are almost zero. Then there are deductions that can be claimed as follows:
Tax allowances Baht
Tax Exempt 150,000.00
Over 65 Allowance 190,000.00
Personal allowance 60,000.00
Total 400,000.00
Plus, there are other items which can be claimed, local insurance, schooling etc.
Based on discussions with the accountant I have recently spoke to on this. if I bring in 1m Baht and cannot prove it has been taxed overseas I could have a potential taxable income of less than 500k Baht
Don't forget there is also the Allowance to wife 10m Baht per year or partner 5m Baht per year, Sadly you can't claim both.

[Big Boy]

Therein is the problem

If you can prove you have already paid tax on what your "earned" overseas, then the implications are almost zero.

How?

I have provided documentation provided by the UK Government. Thailand will not accept the proof unless the British Embassy has confirmed it as real. The British Embassy state:

The British Embassy does not handle tax certificate

What a surprise! The British Embassy doesn't seem to do very much!

I have provided a link further up this page of an organisation on the Gov.UK approved list who say they can get that approval (for a nice price). My documentation has been sat at the British Embassy since 6 Feb (I have been told up to 10 days for the Embassy to process).

I had to re-arrange my 14 Feb appointment whilst awaiting my document's return. It is now looking likely my re-arranged date of 21 Feb will have to be re-arranged also.

[londongeorge]

Big Boy you said:
-----------------------------
I have provided documentation provided by the UK Government. Thailand will not accept the proof unless the British Embassy has confirmed it as real. The British Embassy state:
-----------------------

Could you please tell me how you managed to get the documentation from the UK Govt. I was hoping that by logging into my Gateway account I would be able to get it from there. But I can't find a way to do it.

I have not gone to the Thai tax office yet but would like to have as much info as possible to present to them.

[caller]

Sorry BB, I am a bit confused.

I thought you said earlier that you were waiting for a reply from the civil service pension people, to see if they can verify your P60, and also feedback from the company claiming to be authorised by the Embassy to do so, but now you mention the documentation has been sat at the Embassy to process. I assume I have misundersood something?

[Big Boy]

Civil Service Pensions have not done anything - absolutely not a squeak out of them. In the meantime I found the Gov.UK service mentioned before, offering to do the entire thing for a price. With an almost £3,000 tax bill sat in my lap, I did not want to take chances.

I've received some great news within the last 10 minutes. I've heard from both my solicitor and DHL. I should receive my verified document in time for my 21 Feb meeting at the tax office.

[Big Boy]

Could you please tell me how you managed to get the documentation from the UK Govt. I was hoping that by logging into my Gateway account I would be able to get it from there. But I can't find a way to do it.

My statement (P60) is mailed to me by Civil Service Pensions each year.

[Big Boy]

Just a quick update, and not an update I was expecting. I've just received a scan of my document from my solicitor. It has all been stamped, sealed and approved by the Thai Embassy in London. Hopefully they won't be able to argue with that baby. If they do, they'll be fighting with each other.

I was baffled by my document being stuck at the Embassy, and I was thinking a centralized virtual British Embassy. I was half expecting to be sent to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs next to get my Embassy stamp confirmed as authentic. I think this is 10 times better than I hoped for.

[PET]

Just a quick update, and not an update I was expecting. I've just received a scan of my document from my solicitor. It has all been stamped, sealed and approved by the Thai Embassy in London. Hopefully they won't be able to argue with that baby. If they do, they'll be fighting with each other.

I was baffled by my document being stuck at the Embassy, and I was thinking a centralized virtual British Embassy. I was half expecting to be sent to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs next to get my Embassy stamp confirmed as authentic. I think this is 10 times better than I hoped for.

BB How much has this all cost?

[PET]

We are all confused with this but unless you live an extravagant life here the implications are I believe low.
If you can prove you have already paid tax on what your "earned" overseas, then the implications are almost zero. Then there are deductions that can be claimed as follows:
Tax allowances Baht
Tax Exempt 150,000.00
Over 65 Allowance 190,000.00
Personal allowance 60,000.00
Total 400,000.00
Plus, there are other items which can be claimed, local insurance, schooling etc.
Based on discussions with the accountant I have recently spoke to on this. if I bring in 1m Baht and cannot prove it has been taxed overseas I could have a potential taxable income of less than 500k Baht
Don't forget there is also the Allowance to wife 10m Baht per year or partner 5m Baht per year, Sadly you can't claim both.

This is very interesting and sounds sensible - BB why do you not show this to your Tax Lady in Hua Hin ?

[Big Boy]

The tax office in Hua Hin are fully aware of all of this - its their job, and what they do. They are not trying to rob anybody (even discounted my wife's expensive operation without seeing receipts). The only problem is proving that I've paid tax. Now that I have certified documentation on its way, that hurdle will be overcome on Friday. They have rules to work to, and although I don't necessarily like those rules, I too as a Civil Servant had to upset a few people.

The cost of certification varies according your personal needs. You need to read the link that I provided and apply it to your own circumstances.

It would be interesting to know whether Stevepiraq1's accountant is allowed to by-pass the "If you can prove you have already paid tax" requirement. The Hua Hin tax office are very insistent on this, and I discussed my difficulties getting the necessary proof with several staff members, up to the local Head Honcho. There was no give on that one.

[PET]

The tax office in Hua Hin are fully aware of all of this - its their job, and what they do. They are not trying to rob anybody (even discounted my wife's expensive operation without seeing receipts). The only problem is proving that I've paid tax. Now that I have certified documentation on its way, that hurdle will be overcome on Friday. They have rules to work to, and although I don't necessarily like those rules, I too as a Civil Servant had to upset a few people.

The cost of certification varies according your personal needs. You need to read the link that I provided and apply it to your own circumstances.

It would be interesting to know whether Stevepiraq1's accountant is allowed to by-pass the "If you can prove you have already paid tax" requirement. The Hua Hin tax office are very insistent on this, and I discussed my difficulties getting the necessary proof with several staff members, up to the local Head Honcho. There was no give on that one.

I have two incomes at 83yrs. Firstly my state pension from the Uk and I do a self assessmentTax Calculation and every year I receive a Tax Caculation advising and laying out the figures of Tax paid. Secondly I have my private pension in a QROPS approved by HM Revenue & Customs and registered in Gibraltar who deduct Tax at 12% from my annual if any withdrawal. There is bank HMRevenue statements covering the tax deducted.
This should be enough IMO to satisfy HH - not that I intend visiting them unless it becomes a requirement with my Annual visa for retirement puposes.

[STEVE G]

Tax allowances Baht
Tax Exempt 150,000.00
Over 65 Allowance 190,000.00
Personal allowance 60,000.00
Total 400,000.00

I'm not totally sure but the way I've been reading the Thai tax code, the 190,000bt exemption for over 65s seems to be instead of the 150,000bt, not additional to it.

[Big Boy]

Yes, 190,000 sounds like one of the exemptions applied to me.

[Big Boy]

I have two incomes at 83yrs. Firstly my state pension from the Uk and I do a self assessmentTax Calculation and every year I receive a Tax Caculation advising and laying out the figures of Tax paid. Secondly I have my private pension in a QROPS approved by HM Revenue & Customs and registered in Gibraltar who deduct Tax at 12% from my annual if any withdrawal. There is bank HMRevenue statements covering the tax deducted.
This should be enough IMO to satisfy HH - not that I intend visiting them unless it becomes a requirement with my Annual visa for retirement puposes.

Your circumstances sound similar to mine. I think they will need your tax documentation validatng (at least this was my stumbling block). As I've said, I went right up to the Head Honcho, and that was the thing they all said was essential. Somebody earlier in this thread also quoted that same rule.

I'm sure, if they call you out, I'm sure the solution I'm using would work for you.

[caller]

I'm really confused as to how the Thai Embassy in London can verify a copy of a document issued by a UK pension provider.

The answer is, they can't. What they are providing is a notary service, which is effecively meaningless.

What happened to the requirement to have it verified from the UK Embassy, or one of it's proxies on behalf of the UK Embassy, who you were dealing with?

But if it gets you over the hurdle, then all is well.