Vaccines - Covid 19

[handdrummer]

I wonder why the inventor of mRNA vaccine would speak out against it? He must have some credibility.
I can understand why the opposition would want to shut him up and discredit him.

"Time will tell, who has fell and who's been left behind........" B. Dylan

[HHTel]

Without vaccines, where do you think we'd be with:

Chickenpox,
Diphtheria,
'Flu,
Hepatitis A,
Hepatitis B,
HIB,
HPV,
Measles,
Meningococcal,
Mumps,
Pneumococcal,
Polio,
Rotavirus,
Rubella,
Tetanus,
Whooping Cough.

The guy's an idiot and the danger is that people will listen!

The following is an interesting read about 'Dr.' Robert:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... ic/619734/

It’s only in the curious world of fringe media that Malone has found the platform, and the recognition, he’s sought for so long. He talks to hosts who aren’t going to question whether he’s the brains behind the Pfizer and Moderna shots. They’re not going to quibble over whether credit should be shared with co-authors, or talk about how science is like a relay race, or point out that, absent the hard work of brilliant researchers who came before and after Malone, there would be no vaccine. He’s an upgrade over their typical guest list of chiropractors and naturopaths, and they’re perfectly happy to address him by the title he believes he’s earned: inventor of the mRNA vaccines.

The irony is that, to the audiences who tune in to those shows, the vaccines are seen as a scourge rather than a godsend. No matter how nuanced Malone might try to be, or how many qualifiers he appends to his opinions, he is egging on vaccine hesitancy at a time when hospitals in the least-vaccinated parts of the country are struggling to cope with an influx of new COVID-19 patients. If you want proof of that, scroll through the many comments from his followers thanking him for confirming their fears. Malone has finally made his mark, by undermining confidence in the very vaccine he says wouldn’t be possible without his genius. It’s a victory, of sorts, but one that he and the rest of us may come to regret.

[electricwarrior]

I wonder why the inventor of mRNA vaccine would speak out against it? He must have some credibility.
I can understand why the opposition would want to shut him up and discredit him.

"Time will tell, who has fell and who's been left behind........" B. Dylan

Did you fact check his claim of being the inventor of mRNA vaccines????????

You seem to be lagging waaay behind

[HHTel]

“Dr. Malone is the inventor of mRNA vaccines”

Inaccurate: The development of the mRNA vaccines is due to the work of hundreds of researchers, one of which is Robert Malone. Together with his co-authors, Malone contributed early evidence that mRNA could be delivered and produce proteins in cells. However, because crucial hurdles to develop the mRNA vaccines were resolved by many researchers , Malone cannot be claimed the inventor of this vaccine technology.


KEY TAKE AWAY
Like many technologies, the development of the mRNA vaccines was a collaborative effort that spanned a number of research institutes, three decades of work, and hundreds of researchers. Robert Malone contributed to the early development of this vaccine technology, however he is not the sole inventor of mRNA vaccines.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/ ... -inventor/

[caller]

I wonder why the inventor of mRNA vaccine would speak out against it? He must have some credibility.
I can understand why the opposition would want to shut him up and discredit him.

"Time will tell, who has fell and who's been left behind........" B. Dylan

You really need to do a bit more research.

Yes, he had a part to play, but as several have said, it was a collaborative effort involving many scientists. Some working alone, others in groups, that enabled the knowledge of the process that is mrna be developed into an effective vaccine. There was no single inventor. This guy didn't even finish his studies and is somewhat bitter that he has missed out. Now he sounds like a nut.

"he often notes that he has colleagues in the government and at universities who agree with him and are privately cheering him on. I spoke with several of these people—vaccine scientists and biotech consultants, suggested by Malone himself— and that is not what they told me. The portrait they paint of Malone is of an insightful researcher who can be headstrong. They related accounts of him, pre-pandemic, getting booted from projects because he was hard to communicate with and unwilling to compromise. (Malone has acknowledged his penchant for butting heads with fellow scientists.) And they are taken aback by his emergence as a vaccine skeptic. One called his eagerness to appear on less-than-reputable podcasts “naive,” while another said he thought Malone’s public rhetoric had “migrated from extrapolated assertions to sensational assertions.” Stan Gromkowski, a cellular immunologist who did work on mRNA vaccines in the early 1990s and views Malone as an underappreciated pioneer, put it this way: “He’s fucking up his chances for a Nobel Prize.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... ic/619734/

[handdrummer]

Thank you for doing the research, neither research nor internet/computer usage is my forte.

It seems that there is a pro and con position for every statement about everything and unless I have direct experience of something, I have no way of knowing the truth so I just put things out there and someone does the research and if I have a position that I have to revise, I do so. I'm not interested in being right, I'm interested in knowing the truth.

[KhunLA]

Without vaccines, where do you think we'd be with:

Chickenpox,
Diphtheria,
'Flu,
Hepatitis A,
Hepatitis B,
HIB,
HPV,
Measles,
Meningococcal,
Mumps,
Pneumococcal,
Polio,
Rotavirus,
Rubella,
Tetanus,
Whooping Cough

Agree, but they are not mRna vaccines.

Can we please stop calling it a vaccine, as it does not prevent one from getting, transmitting, being cured by or preventing death from the disease. Most people are on or ready for 3rd shot, within 6 - 9 - 12 months. I guess a booster every 3 or 6 months will be required, and for how long ? That's not a vaccine. Even the tetanus / shingles vaccine lasts 10 / 5 years, respectively, I think.

It's more a preemptive treatment medicine, and apparently not very effective at that. IMHO I just find it strange, people are subjecting themselves to an un-tested (long term) chemical injected into their bodies for a disease that has a 99+% recovery rate. OK, it might lessen the symptoms of 1st infection, which you have a 99% chance of recovery anyway. Most infected have mild, or no symptoms, many not even knowing they were infected until tested.

Just my thoughts, and happy to agree to disagree. Do agree, you can't trust any information any more, from any source. Sadly, it all seems to be corrupted.

[caller]

Can we please stop calling it a vaccine,

By definition it's a vaccine. The annual flu jab is a vaccine. There is no rule that say's it must protect for x period or that it will work for everyone. It's also pointless comparing it to other illnesses that vaccines protect against.

Your argument say's more about the state of your mind that anything based on fact.

[Dannie Boy]

And even if the % figures are correct, it’s still 4.5 million people who have died from Covid


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[HHTel]

Agree, but they are not mRna vaccines.

Although tests have been carried out, there has never been an Mrna vaccine on the market anywhere in the world.
It's a new technology but proven nevertheless.

The argument that Dr. Robert gives is nonsense. A classic example is the smallpox vaccine, the first vaccine to be developed in 1796.

The last known naturally occurring case of smallpox was diagnosed on Oct. 26, 1977, in Merka, Somalia, according to the CDC. The World Health Organization (WHO) declared smallpox eradicated in 1980. "It was eradicated solely through vaccination.

Different vaccines have varying lengths of protection. You mentioned shingles or chickenpox. In most people the vaccine gives protection for life.

And just to back up Caller's comment:

Vaccine:

noun
a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.
"every year the flu vaccine is modified to deal with new strains of the virus"

[KhunLA]

By definition it's a vaccine. The annual flu jab is a vaccine.

That's not much of an endorsement, as the annual flu vaccine, is one of the worst out there, and averages <40% effective (CDC / USA stats) over the past 10ish years.

And even if the % figures are correct, it’s still 4.5 million people who have died from Covid

4.5 mill of 7.9 billions. In that context, it's not many.

Agree, but they are not mRna vaccines.

Although tests have been carried out, there has never been an Mrna vaccine on the market anywhere in the world.
It's a new technology but proven nevertheless.
..... only be the folks making & selling it

Different vaccines have varying lengths of protection. You mentioned shingles or chickenpox. In most people the vaccine gives protection for life.
....quick search, and shingles vac is only good for 4+ years. And 'chickenpox' ... I don't know anyone that has had that vaccine, and not had chickenpox. Obviously doesn't work well, and certainly not for life, as people get shingles - chickenpox, myself included, and damn annoying thankfully gone now

[HHTel]

Oh dear. Shingles is the same virus as chickenpox. Shingles is sometimes referred to as the sequel to chickenpox. You can't get shingles unless you've had chickenpox. If you've never had chickenpox and come into contact with someone who is in the infections state of shingles, you won't get shingles, you'll get chickenpox.
When the body recovers from chickenpox, the virus goes into hiding and can come out later as shingles. If you're vaccinated for chickenpox, you are also vaccinated against shingles.


The shingles vaccine is designed to prevent you developing shingles in a person who has had chickenpox.

To re-iterate chickenpox and shingles is the same virus.

Chickenpox can cause an itchy rash that usually lasts about a week. It can also cause fever, tiredness, loss of appetite, and headache. It can lead to skin infections, pneumonia, inflammation of the blood vessels, and swelling of the brain and/or spinal cord covering, and infections of the bloodstream, bone, or joints. Some people who get chickenpox get a painful rash called shingles (also known as herpes zoster) years later.

Chickenpox is usually mild, but it can be serious in infants under 12 months of age, adolescents, adults, pregnant women, and people with a weakened immune system. Some people get so sick that they need to be hospitalized. It doesn't happen often, but people can die from chickenpox.

Most people who are vaccinated with 2 doses of varicella vaccine will be protected for life.

Also, if you've had chickenpox, it's extremely rare for you to get it again. It can come back later in life as shingles.

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/007612.htm

While an mRNA vaccine has never been on the market anywhere in the world, mRNA vaccines have been tested in humans before, for at least four infectious diseases: rabies, influenza, cytomegalovirus, and Zika.

As I said, been tested before but has never hit the market.

[Dannie Boy]

.

And even if the % figures are correct, it’s still 4.5 million people who have died from Covid

4.5 mill of 7.9 billions. In that context, it's not many.

But what would the number have been had the world not started mass vaccinations?

And it’s not just the deaths, it’s the total disruption to normal life that Covid has brought, in the process wrecking the lives of countless hundreds of millions of people both physically, emotionally and financially, from which many will never fully recover.

[KhunLA]

That you can't blame on Covid. Personally I thought lockdowns & closures was a bad choice. Doing as much or more harm than good, IMHO

That's a different debate (no thanks ) for a different thread.

[Dannie Boy]

That you can't blame on Covid. Personally I thought lockdowns & closures was a bad choice. Doing as much or more harm than good, IMHO

That's a different debate (no thanks ) for a different thread.

Of course you can blame it on Covid - no Covid, no lockdowns, regardless of whether some/most governments overreacted.


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