Global Warming/Climate Change 2

Discussion on science, nature and technology across the globe.
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STEVE G
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Re: Global Warming 2

Post by STEVE G »

MYTH 10: The earth’s poles are warming; polar ice caps are breaking up and melting....
Chinese foray into Arctic sparks Russian concern
http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aall/201304020041.aspx

"....the Chinese shipping company will set off its first business navigation on the Northern Sea Route this summer.
The website report also said that the fast melting of the oldest and thickest Arctic ice cap has led to an acceleration in the development of new navigation lines and mineral resources in the Arctic region."
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Re: Global Warming 2

Post by charlesh »

Imagine the number of people out of work if global warming was debunked and the number of grants curtailed. The hot air created would indeed create isolated nodes of elevated temperature followed by periods of frost !
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Re: Global Warming 2

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What should be galling for debt-burdened western populations is that only a few countries are adopting increased taxes, energy bills and implementing social controls. The BRIC nations, as far as I can tell, aren't following suit. If they are not persuaded, then projections for CO2 mitigation don't hold any water.

The earth seems to be self-correcting, when models said we should be seeing heating, due to 'parabolic' CO2 levels. The lead adherents to AGW have admitted they have no understanding of the self-correcting mechanisms of the planet, which seems to have managed quite well for the last 4 and a half billion years, surviving floods, earthquakes, volcanoes, tectonic shifts, meteor strikes, ice ages and so on. Man in the other hand is only 100-200,000 years old and has only been industrialized for the last 200 years. The earth doesn't need 'saving'. Man does. We can save the whale, the snail and everything in between yet we can't even take care of each other.

Because the models aren't being supported by real world events, now they are saying wait another 20 years, in the hope the weather will oblige, or the millions of children, presently being indoctrinated, take positions of influence. This, they hope, will give enough time to force through global legislation and taxation, over the heads of sovereign nations.

For me, the 'Trojan Horse' of communistic global government is the real agenda, where the wealthy nations are eviscerated and the poorer nations are unable to develop.
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Re: Global Warming 2

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Cooling, warming, cooling, warming, cooling?.... Those poor environmentalists can't know whether they are coming or going...

http://butnowyouknow.net/those-who-fail ... -timeline/

Climate Change Timeline – 1895-2009

There is most certainly a pattern to climate change…
…but it’s not what you may think:

For at least 114 years, climate “scientists” have been claiming that the climate was going to kill us…but they have kept switching whether it was a coming ice age, or global warming...

1st Global Cooling Scare...
1895 - Geologists Think the World May Be Frozen Up Again – New York Times, February 1895
1902 - “Disappearing Glaciers…deteriorating slowly, with a persistency that means their final annihilation…scientific fact…surely disappearing.” – Los Angeles Times
1912 - Prof. Schmidt Warns Us of an Encroaching Ice Age – New York Times, October 1912
1923 - “Scientist says Arctic ice will wipe out Canada” – Professor Gregory of Yale University, American representative to the Pan-Pacific Science Congress, – Chicago Tribune
1923 - “The discoveries of changes in the sun’s heat and the southward advance of glaciers in recent years have given rise to conjectures of the possible advent of a new ice age” – Washington Post
1924 - MacMillan Reports Signs of New Ice Age – New York Times, Sept 18, 1924
1929 - “Most geologists think the world is growing warmer, and that it will continue to get warmer” – Los Angeles Times, in Is another ice age coming?
1932 - “If these things be true, it is evident, therefore that we must be just teetering on an ice age” – The Atlantic magazine, This Cold, Cold World
1933 - America in Longest Warm Spell Since 1776; Temperature Line Records a 25-Year Rise – New York Times, March 27th, 1933

1st Global Warming Scare...
1933 – “…wide-spread and persistent tendency toward warmer weather…Is our climate changing?” – Federal Weather Bureau “Monthly Weather Review.”
1938 - Global warming, caused by man heating the planet with carbon dioxide, “is likely to prove beneficial to mankind in several ways, besides the provision of heat and power.”– Quarterly Journal of the Royal Meteorological Society
1938 - “Experts puzzle over 20 year mercury rise…Chicago is in the front rank of thousands of cities thuout the world which have been affected by a mysterious trend toward warmer climate in the last two decades” – Chicago Tribune
1939 - “Gaffers who claim that winters were harder when they were boys are quite right… weather men have no doubt that the world at least for the time being is growing warmer” – Washington Post
1952 - “…we have learned that the world has been getting warmer in the last half century” – New York Times, August 10th, 1962
1954 - “…winters are getting milder, summers drier. Glaciers are receding, deserts growing” – U.S. News and World Report
1954 - Climate – the Heat May Be Off – Fortune Magazine
1959 - “Arctic Findings in Particular Support Theory of Rising Global Temperatures” – New York Times
1969 - “…the Arctic pack ice is thinning and that the ocean at the North Pole may become an open sea within a decade or two” – New York Times, February 20th, 1969
1969 – “If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000″ — Paul Ehrlich (while he now predicts doom from global warming, this quote only gets honorable mention, as he was talking about his crazy fear of overpopulation)

2nd Global Cooling Scare...
1970 - “…get a good grip on your long johns, cold weather haters – the worst may be yet to come…there’s no relief in sight” – Washington Post
1974 - Global cooling for the past forty years – Time Magazine
1974 - “Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age” – Washington Post
1974 - “As for the present cooling trend a number of leading climatologists have concluded that it is very bad news indeed” – Fortune magazine, who won a Science Writing Award from the American Institute of Physics for its analysis of the danger
1974 - “…the facts of the present climate change are such that the most optimistic experts would assign near certainty to major crop failure…mass deaths by starvation, and probably anarchy and violence” – New York Times Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age
1975 - Scientists Ponder Why World’s Climate is Changing; A Major Cooling Widely Considered to Be Inevitable – New York Times, May 21st, 1975
1975 - “The threat of a new ice age must now stand alongside nuclear war as a likely source of wholesale death and misery for mankind” Nigel Calder, editor, New Scientist magazine, in an article in International Wildlife Magazine
1976 - “Even U.S. farms may be hit by cooling trend” – U.S. News and World Report


2nd Global Warming Scare...
1981 - Global Warming – “of an almost unprecedented magnitude” – New York Times
1988 - I would like to draw three main conclusions. Number one, the earth is warmer in 1988 than at any time in the history of instrumental measurements. Number two, the global warming is now large enough that we can ascribe with a high degree of confidence a cause and effect relationship to the greenhouse effect. And number three, our computer climate simulations indicate that thegreenhouse effect is already large enough to begin to effect the probability of extreme events such as summer heat waves. – Jim Hansen, June 1988 testimony before Congress, see His later quote and His superior’s objection for context
1989 -”On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but – which means that we must include all doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands and buts. On the other hand, we are not just scientists but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place, which in this context translates into our working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climate change. To do that we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, means getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have. This “double ethical bind” we frequently find ourselves in cannot be solved by any formula. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that means being both.” – Stephen Schneider, lead author of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, Discover magazine, October 1989
1990 - “We’ve got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing – in terms of economic policy and environmental policy” – Senator Timothy Wirth
1993 - “Global climate change may alter temperature and rainfall patterns, many scientists fear, with uncertain consequences for agriculture.” – U.S. News and World Report
1998 - No matter if the science [of global warming] is all phony . . . climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.” —Christine Stewart, Canadian Minister of the Environment, Calgary Herald, 1998
2001 - “Scientists no longer doubt that global warming is happening, and almost nobody questions the fact that humans are at least partly responsible.” – Time Magazine, Monday, Apr. 09, 2001
2003 - Emphasis on extreme scenarios may have been appropriate at one time, when the public and decision-makers were relatively unaware of the global warming issue, and energy sources such as “synfuels,” shale oil and tar sands were receiving strong consideration” – Jim Hansen, NASA Global Warming activist, Can we defuse The Global Warming Time Bomb?, 2003
2006 - “I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis.” — Al Gore, Grist magazine, May 2006


3rd Global Cooling Scare..?
Now: The global mean temperature has fallen for four years in a row, which is why you stopped hearing details about the actual global temperature, even while they carry on about taxing you to deal with it…how long before they start predicting an ice age?
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Re: Global Warming 2

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MrPlum wrote:3rd Global Cooling Scare..?
Now: The global mean temperature has fallen for four years in a row, which is why you stopped hearing details about the actual global temperature, even while they carry on about taxing you to deal with it…how long before they start predicting an ice age?
The global average temperature in 2011 was 14.52 degrees Celsius (58.14 degrees Fahrenheit). According to NASA scientists, this was the ninth warmest year in 132 years of recordkeeping, despite the cooling influence of the La Niña atmospheric and oceanic circulation pattern and relatively low solar irradiance. Since the 1970s, each subsequent decade has gotten hotter—and 9 of the 10 hottest years on record have occurred in the twenty-first century.
indicator8_2012_tempgraph.png
indicator8_2012_tempgraph.png (15.71 KiB) Viewed 306 times
http://www.earth-policy.org/indicators/ ... ature_2012
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Re: Global Warming 2

Post by sargeant »

interesting if one checks the post
1st global cooling scare first ref New York times
1st global warming scare first ref Federal Weather Bureau “Monthly Weather Review.”
2nd global cooling scare first ref Washington Post
2nd global warming scare first ref New York Times

it seems the country that starts all these scares if the posters inference is correct should stay quiet seeing as they have not signed up for any of them and denied all of them as suits :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Global Warming 2

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Obama the antichrist? Global warming a myth? Lizard people controlling the world? Conspiracy theory research reveals bizarre beliefs prevalent in US
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 58384.html
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Re: Global Warming 2

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And in Hua Hin and this forum in particular :lach: :lach: :lach: :lach: :dance: :dance: :dance: :butt: :butt:
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Re: Global Warming 2

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Bristolian wrote:According to NASA scientists, this was the ninth warmest year in 132 years of recordkeeping
And yet, when you look at the chart you posted, 2011 does not affect the most recent downward trend.

What do you think of the previous alarmist climate claims? Were you aware of them and should it inluence our thinking on today's claims?
STEVE G wrote:Conspiracy theory research reveals bizarre beliefs prevalent in US
The trick here... and we've seen the tactic used before.. is to take 'bizarre' notions like Lizard people and using guilt-by-association, tar reasonable skepticism, with the same brush. It's pretty shabby and clearly isn't working, judging by the numbers of those dissenting.

Perhaps Public Policy Pollsters should ask...

"How do you regard the fear-mongering politicians, scientists and their environmental faithful who predicted global apocalyptic events, if immediate action wasn't taken?"

A. Deluded
B. Deceivers
C. Beyond reproach, backed by provable science
D. Religious Nutjobs

"Bearing in mind, they've given us media climate hysteria on 4 occasions in the last 100 or so years, would you buy a used car from any of these hucksters?"

A. Don't be silly
B. Yeah.. Becoz we got satellites 'n stuff now.
C. Obama wouldn't lie.
D. Big Oil did it.
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Re: Global Warming 2

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MrPlum wrote:
Bristolian wrote:According to NASA scientists, this was the ninth warmest year in 132 years of recordkeeping
And yet, when you look at the chart you posted, 2011 does not affect the most recent downward trend.

What do you think of the previous alarmist climate claims? Were you aware of them and should it inluence our thinking on today's claims?
I am certanly not a scientist but the claim from NASA was that 2011 was the warmest year in 132 years and of course 2011 was within the window of your statement that temperatures had fallen for four years in a row. Somewhere there must be some conflicting evidence

I do believe that many of the earlier claims were indeed alarmist but probably based on the best information and models that were available at the time. This of course should influence my thinking on any claims made today, but unless you see something in the NASA graph that I do not, the overall trend is still upwards. I have not seen any other graph that shows otherwise. The planet healing itself or self correcting itself is something I have heard as a claim but can see no evidence for it. :cheers:
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Re: Global Warming 2

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It's pretty shabby and clearly isn't working, judging by the numbers of those dissenting.
Let's not forget that global warming is a product of physical effects and will happen, or not happen, based wholly on that and irrespective of whether anyone believes it or not.
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Re: Global Warming 2

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People dissenting is a very real probability

NOT because they do not believe it is happening

but they dont believe as i dont believe carbon taxes and all this BS will change diddly squat so they dissent or like me bow out and then i am counted as a sceptic

but you never hear of polls asking people if these BS taxes are good bad or indifferent the whole debate has been taken over by the believers at the extreme versus the ostriches at the other and the only question is do you believe or dont you
and as long as the fanatics at both ends keep the the cold hard facts in a smog of bilateral BS smear counter smear innuendo and downright lies BOTH sides remain employed in this BS, proof one way or the other will see the unemployment rate soar.
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Re: Global Warming 2

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It pays to remember that skeptics like Monkton have accepted there has been warming and even conceded that man has been responsible for some of it. Where the divergence occurs is that the problem isn't as serious has been made out (the proponents have admitted they have exaggerated) and we can do little about it. We should not try to hold back the tide, at great cost to our wealth and civil liberties but adjust to whatever warming comes along. It should also be noted that the solutions offered up don't actually solve the problem only enrich and empower certain factions.

Another chart to chew on...

Image

'Next time you see the usual "global warming" chart, look carefully: it is in tiny fractions of one degree. The ENTIRE global warming is less than six tenths of one degree. Here is the Global Warming Advocates' own chart, rendered in actual degrees like sane people use. I was going to use 0-100 like a thermometer, but you end up with almost a flat line, so I HELPED the Climate Change side by making the temperature range much narrower, and the chart needlessly tall to stretch the up-down differences in the line.'
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STEVE G
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Re: Global Warming 2

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....but adjust to whatever warming comes along.
And what if that fails?
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Re: Global Warming 2

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MrPlum wrote:It pays to remember that skeptics like Monkton have accepted there has been warming and even conceded that man has been responsible for some of it. Where the divergence occurs is that the problem isn't as serious has been made out (the proponents have admitted they have exaggerated) and we can do little about it. We should not try to hold back the tide, at great cost to our wealth and civil liberties but adjust to whatever warming comes along. It should also be noted that the solutions offered up don't actually solve the problem only enrich and empower certain factions.

Another chart to chew on...

Image

'Next time you see the usual "global warming" chart, look carefully: it is in tiny fractions of one degree. The ENTIRE global warming is less than six tenths of one degree. Here is the Global Warming Advocates' own chart, rendered in actual degrees like sane people use. I was going to use 0-100 like a thermometer, but you end up with almost a flat line, so I HELPED the Climate Change side by making the temperature range much narrower, and the chart needlessly tall to stretch the up-down differences in the line.'
I'm sorry Mr P but as you are aware showing a graph of Global Warming that shows a scale of 30 - 80 degrees F scale is ludicrous in the extreme! Why not show the scale to Absolute Zero.

We should care about one degree C of warming not 50.

A one-degree global change is significant a one- to two-degree drop was all it took to plunge the Earth into the Little Ice Age. A five-degree drop was enough to bury a large part of North America under a towering mass of ice 20,000 years ago.
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