Global Warming/Climate Change 2

[sargeant]

I have a problem with that steve
plants take in CO2 water and sunlight, using Photosynthesis to produce the plant locking in the carbon
and releasing oxygen
In all my research i have never read anything about methane being part of the process (i will check again though unless you can give me a link and save me a whole load of my life)
As far as i know methane is produced when plant life rots or in the gut of animals which humans are part thereof
I will say it again it cannot stay balanced as you suggest, simply because of deforestation and population because the increase in humans says it will also increase in bovines
IF it is balanced right now and that is not a given the above says it certainly will not stay balanced in the near future

As for coal and oil i agree 100% i just do not think it is even 50% of the whole problem
Question:- if you are successful and stop all CO2 emmissions and it is still getting warmer where do you go then

to me 65%estimate of the problem is not even vaguely being addressed

[STEVE G]

IF it is balanced right now and that is not a given the above says it certainly will not stay balanced in the near future

Methane is absorbed by atmosheric action and the soil, it breaks down in the atmosphere to form carbon dioxide, ozone, and water. It is increasing at the moment but that is easier to address than releasing carbon from fossil fuels. It wouldn't be really very difficult to reduce the amount of cattle on the planet.

[Frank Hovis]

The problem with fossil fuels is that they're releasing carbon that has been locked up for millions of years and comes from a time when the atmosphere was different to what it is now, so it's only part of the carbon cycle on a very long time scale which includes periods in which the earth wouldn't sustain human life as we know it.

Is this true? It was my understanding that all the oil we currently use was formed in the Jurassic period, a time whose atmosphere wasn't all that different to today's, although with a lot more CO2 (hence the proliferation of algae) but also a higher percentage of oxygen to offset it. At no point since then has the world changed to be uninhabitable by humans, despite there not being any humans for the majority of it.
Disasters excluded, can you point to a period since the Jurassic that humans could not have existed due to atmospheric conditions?

[sargeant]

RRRIIIIGGGHHHHHT

It wouldn't be really very difficult to reduce the amount of cattle on the planet.

over my dead and methane producing rotting corpse it will be very difficult cos of on account i just aint not know how

GONNA Be Taxxed up every orifice and be forced to be a vegetarian by some hippie tree huggers who wont be forced to sterilize themselves

How is this for an idea (it will save paper and trees as well) have a world referendum all those in favour of carbon tax and reducing cattle vote by being sterilised
those against carry on procreating but become veggetarians until the planet is back in order
seems fair to me

[sargeant]

Frank plants and trees and algea were around agreed a mere blink of an eye in the paleoasic period
coal and oil are produced from different bodies but as far as i know at about the same time

and the dinasaurs needed something to eat

Prior to trees and plants it was heavy with CO2

[Frank Hovis]

Sarge - I was just a bit doubtful about what Steve G said regarding the atmosphere since the time oil was 'laid down'. Coal I believe was some 200m years earlier in the Carboniferous at a time when C02 in the atmosphere was higher than now but not as high as the Jurassic, but again offset by the massive amount of oxygen in the atmosphere.

I'm sure Steve G will clarify his statement in due course.

[STEVE G]

Frank, I believe that for the majority of the period from the Jurassic until now, the average temperature of the earth has been around 25C which whilst survivable, is perhaps beyond that which humanity would thrive as it has done.

[sargeant]

the average temperature of the earth has been around 25C

Agreed Steve but the operative word is Average

Volcanic eruptions and comet collisions have according to the scientists produced numerous cooling periods

the question is how much does the melankovic theory play in that up to the industrial revolution and how much does it play since then

[Homer]

Even ExxonMobil think climate change is a problem:

Even ExxonMobil know to play the Public Relations game.

[sargeant]

I agree homer
their previous public relations position was to stand head and shoulders with the sceptics

but even you must agree it is a 180 degree on that previous stance

maybe they have inside info they are not releasing to the public seeing as how many millions they have pumped into the research allegedly to influence the scientists

[redzonerocker]

the average temperature of the earth has been around 25C

Agreed Steve but the operative word is Average

So where has the data come from to determine this?
I ask because whenever the medieval warming period is mentioned the scientific brigade claim it was only the northern hemisphere that was affected, why? because there was no data available for the southern hemisphere during that time

Talk about moving the goalposts


I've posted this article before, maybe some people just didn't read it
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nised.html

This is the guy that was a key member of the team that tried to con the world into a GW panic with the hockey stick graph!!
Unbelievably he's still working in the same dept, as director of research

You couldn't make it up! . . . . . . unless you are part of the scientific GW brigade of course

[STEVE G]

I've posted this article before, maybe some people just didn't read it
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nised.html

From the article:

"There has been no Global Warming since 1995"

But:

Record High Temperatures in the First Six Months of the Year
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/ ... -the-year/

Arctic sea ice shrinks to lowest June extent ever observed
http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/a ... r-observed

[sargeant]

I ask because whenever the medieval warming period is mentioned

would that period be just after the dark ages when a volcanic island somewhere near Indonesia threw its dummy out of its pram and started a mini ice age

you see being a logical sorta guy if it is after a mini ice age one would expect it to warm up to what it woz before it froze its nuts off

irgo it aint a warming period at all its just shaking of the frost

[STEVE G]

For those who think that fixing global warming isn't worth the cost:

Severe Drought Seen as Driving Cost of Food Up
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/26/busin ... ought.html

[sargeant]

A good article Steve i was watching a programme on BBC today apparently indonesia has a problem with rising soya bean prices.
As both of us have said food prices are the canary in the coal mine
But it is a bit US phobic in so much as record floods are pushing prices up in other parts of the world

Maybe the sceptics will wake up when a bowl of rice and TOFU costs 20$