Political un-rest and rally

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PeteC
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

Post by PeteC »

Regardless of who's leaning to whatever side, events are starting to take their toll on both Thai and Expat alike living here who are not directly involved.

Yes, it sounds selfish to say that from those not directly involved in the conflict and not losing life and limb. However, it's a fact of life here now.

Everyone I know is depressed and in a very quiet and somber mood. Almost all thoughts and media input received is about this and nothing else. Life is not happy nor hopeful here at the moment.

This is all going to have long term effects on Thais, Expats, tourism, the economy, the credibility of the country....everything. It's going to take years to recover, if ever.

I fret and worry greatly about my adopted country and I think I speak for all long term Expats in saying that. :( :( :( Pete
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

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Pete,

Not selfish at all.

I hope it all is over soon with minimal loss of life and injury. To all in Thailand, stay safe and do not risk going into these areas as its not worth it at all.

It is truly sad to see the footage and the state the country is in.
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

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http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... f-darkness

As I'm writing this article from my home yesterday evening, I hear sounds of gunshots from a distance. This conflict has to come to an end one way or another, unfortunately violence has become the means to that end.

The government's strategy is to lock down Ratchaprasong, cut off food and water supplies and prevent other red shirts from joining the rally - while encouraging those entrenched in the Ratchaprasong district to leave the area.

The goal is to isolate and pressure the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) into capitulation.

In that, the government has thus far been half successful.

No man's land

Saturday night, from my place on Wireless Road, inside the lockdown zone, a motorcycle taxi took me through the back alleys and exited on Phloenchit Road. I walked across the barricade and through the security checkpoint to meet with a TV cameraman.

We took motorcycle taxis back into the lockdown zone, and through no man's land, the pitch black and empty Phloenchit Road.

The first red guard checkpoint was at Central Chidlom. They frisked us and searched the motorcycles - and then again, at the second checkpoint in front of the Intercontinental Hotel.

The area between the two checkpoints was also no man's land, pitch black. The red guards ordered the motorcycle taxis to turn off their headlights. Snipers, they say. They see lights and they shoot.

Centre stage

The look was festive, the mood and sound was a mixed bag. Though there was even a foot massage area in front of the entrance to CentralWorld.

UDD leaders were taking turns entertaining the crowd. Music played through the loudspeakers. Monks gave blessings on the stage.

"We have over 20 power generators," said a source who works for a sanitary district office.

Whatever speech the UDD leaders were giving, there is but one constant in every other sentence: "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

Sandwiched between CentralWorld and Gaysorn Plaza is the rally ground. Through a naked-eye estimate, perhaps there were a thousand people, most likely less. In the middle of the Ratchaprasong intersection is the stage.

Behind the stage is the press tent. There were a few foreign journalists and a couple of Thais - the rest had left since the pitched battles began on Friday.

Behind the press tent is the command centre where UDD leaders hold meetings.

I've visited the rally site three time already. Each time, I saw beat-up old pickups, rickety trucks made of wood in that rural style and assorted other vehicles around. Except for around the command tent, there would be brand new Mercedeses, BMWs, Audis and other luxury cars.

Right in front of the tent would be a Lexus minivan, where Jatupon Prompan takes his breaks.

But on Saturday night, there were no luxury cars around the command tent. The leaders have left, except for the ones with arrest warrants out on them.

From the stage: "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

The surrounding areas, from Ratchaprasong to Pratunam and up to Phaya Thai, are the tents of the foot soldiers. Men, women and children - with banners flying, proudly proclaiming which province they are from and which Bangkok MPs or city councilors are sponsoring them.

Mood, food and showers

It was never the intention to talk to UDD leaders or spokesmen. I'll leave the official lines for those who know what to say and how to say it to other media. The real story comes from the people. The people who are gripped by fear, hatred and paranoia - though some managed to be cheerful and friendly in that uniquely Thai style.

From the stage: "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

One middle-aged lady turned to us while we were filming, screaming hellfire and brimstone about Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, Privy Councillor Prem Tinsulanonda and the army. She promised if the army moves in, the whole of Thailand will burn in flames.

When asked about food and water, she pointed at my face and accused: "Are you spying for the government?" I smiled and said no, we just want the truth. A crowd gathered; she was becoming more belligerent. I smiled, thanked her and pulled the cameraman away.

On the way to check out the shower tents, located in the alley between the Peninsula Plaza and the Four Seasons Hotel, we were called over by two ladies squatting over a large pot of boiled rice, serving a few men.

They smiled and invited us to eat. We politely declined and asked them how they got the food, since they were supposed to be in a lockdown zone, cut off from supplies. A man pointed at the tuk-tuk driver leaning on his vehicle two metres away. He brought in the food.

From the stage: "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

Food was everywhere - from free food to pushcart vendors selling their delicacies. It was business as usual - any sort of food and soda drinks could be had, just like in any neighbourhood in Bangkok. There are also tents stacked with bottled water and other supplies.

Bangkok is a maze of hidden alleyways; anything can be smuggled in from anywhere.

"The provincial soldiers just don't know the city," said the source. "Food and supplies flow in freely through the hidden alleyways. We can stay here forever."

I asked one pushcart vendor, a lady selling soft drinks: "How did you make it through the checkpoints?" She replied: "I'm always here. Other people bring in the stuff for me to sell."

When we made it to the shower tents, a few people were taking showers. I asked a man who seemed to be in charge of the shower tents. "How do you get water? Isn't it supposed to be cut off?"

He replied: "We just connect the pipes to the fire hydrants."

Mobile phone signals also still work, if only in some areas.

Red warrior and the honourable one

I spotted a young man walking around with a police shield and bulletproof vest, so I stopped him and asked: "Where did you get the toys?"

He said he got the shield during a clash with security forces at Pan Fah Bridge. "I just snatched it away from a policeman," he said.

The bulletproof vest? He said a policeman just gave it to him on a different occasion.

From the stage: "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

Another story that was repeated frequently on stage was that the police are on the side of the UDD.

"They shoot at the soldiers who are trying to kill us. The police are with us and protecting us."

And then, "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

"The honourable one said it's a go, it's a fight, it's on," said the man who works at the sanitary district office - who acts as a "fixer" arranging things for the UDD.

"Who's the honourable one?" I asked.

"The honourable one," he smiled.

I spoke a name.

He smiled and nodded.

Changing the topic, I asked: "Where is Khun Veera [Musikhapong]?"

"We share the same goals," he said. "But not the same methods. So he has to take a break. But he'll come back and join us when we win."

From the stage: "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

"What was the loud noises earlier, boom, boom, boom?" I asked.

"We just fired six M79 at the soldiers in Lumpini Park," he proudly replied. "We'll take care of this. No worries, we'll take care of it."

The not-so-great escape

It was near midnight and time to leave. The sound of gunshots can be heard from a distance. We attempted to leave through the way we came in, Phloenchit.

The red guards wouldn't let us. "Snipers are everywhere," they said. "You'll get shot."

One lady spoke in panic, "They're trying to shoot us. They're trying to shoot us all."

From the stage: "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

I asked: "If they want to do that, why don't they just shoot at the main stage area, it's bright, full of people; they can't miss?"

She replied: "They are going to shoot us. They are going to shoot us."

From the stage: "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

Then we heard a series of loud noises. The red guards were busting the light bulbs embedded underneath the BTS.

"If they can't see us they can't shoot us," one said.

From the stage: "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

I was beginning to think, you hear that enough times, you'll start to believe it - and the UDD supporters have been listening to such rhetoric for months. Fear, hatred and paranoia - it's a man-made ambience.

Staring out into the pitch dark no man's land, "bang bang", we heard more gun sounds, so we decided to turn back.

"Stay here tonight. Stay here. Don't go out," said the lady.

"No ma'am, thank you, we'll find our way," I replied.

We were then joined by a British journalist, also trying to find his way out. We tried Tonson and Langsuan roads - pitch black no man's land - gun shots - no good.

We tried Henri Dunant, but a drunken red guard was screaming incomprehensible words, spoiling for a fight, holding a bottle of beer. No one would talk to us. It was pitch black, no man's land; gun shots. No good.

From the stage: "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill all of us."

We asked around, wanting to leave through the Phetchaburi side, the situation was the same. We then decided to walk up to Mahboonkrong Centre (MBK), dragging our feet after five hours. There was light at the end of the dark tunnel.

The streets beyond Siam Square were well lit, no sound of gunfire and no one tried to stop us from leaving. We hailed a taxi in front of MBK. The taxi wouldn't take us.

"You can't leave," he said. "All the road are blocked."

"How did you get in then, there's a lockdown?" I asked.

He didn't answer.

"Where are you going?" I asked.

"I'm going into the rally to see my friends," he replied.

We then hailed three motorcycle taxis that were willing to take us, for a hefty price.

The tour of Bangkok

We stopped at a couple of security checkpoints to ask if we could go through. The soldiers said no, it's dangerous, the red guards have blocked off the roads and they have snipers.

So apparently, according to claims, both sides have snipers.

We were driven all the way to Rama VI Road and into Vibhavadi Rangsit. Around Mahidol University campus, there were hundreds of cars, taxis and motorbikes - hundreds of people crowding around.

We stopped and I asked what was going on. It turned out these were UDD members who couldn't get into the Ratchaprasong lockdown zone. They weren't wearing red. They were told by UDD leaders not to.

So the government's strategy is half successful. Although food and supplies are still flowing in, the mass of people is easier to prevent.

But what of the leaders with arrest warrants out on them at Ratchaprasong? I only saw Natthawut Saikua and Weng Tojirakarn. But perhaps a few leaders can also be smuggled in and out.

We then looped around the near empty streets of Bangkok until the three motorcycle taxis parted ways, each man to his home.

By the time I got back to my place, I thought if I had just walked, I would have been home an hour ago and saved 300 baht - or perhaps I wouldn't have made it at all.

But more importantly, both sides seem spoiling for a fight. One way or another, this conflict has to come to an end.

The lockdown area of Ratchaprasong is a war zone, guerrilla warfare being conducted by both sides. People resolve conflicts through war, that's nothing new. Though a matter of grave concern is the UDD should take the women and children out of the rally site. Government security checkpoints are opened to anyone who wants to leave.
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

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Maybe I'm mistaken, but I was watching some footage yesterday and in my opinion, not everyone throwing petrol bombs is doing it for political reasons. I got the impression that some of them are merely taking advantage of the situation to run riot, much the same as you see when rival students gangs have a go at each other. Some of those throwing the bottles really seemed to be doing it for fun, not to mention the fact that they were only tossing the bottles about five meters or so, and almost none burst into flames. As for the chap trying to set that tanker alight, what the hell was he thinking? That's serious business so no wonder they took him down.

Something else which I found quite ironic is the fact that Mr T is asking the international community to intervene, and to help stop the government from using lethal force. How charming that is, coming from someone who authorized the police to shoot at will during his war on drugs. Hell, the army have only taken a handful of lives by comparison to the thousands who died during his watch. Surely if the current prime minister must be held accountable for the actions of the police and the military, then Mr T should also be held accountable, not only for those who died during his war on drugs, but also for those down south who died in the back of army trucks. As the saying goes.....what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Now, as I've said before, I'm not for any bloody color, but why on earth would any person in their right mind want to take their kids along to the protests in Bangkok. The government has urged parents to take their kids away, or to send them home, and yet most are refusing to do so. What that tells me is that they are not even worthy of being called a parent. After all, as a loving parent, why would you be willing to sacrifice the safety and well being of your child because of your own political disagreements.

Can any parent on this forum honestly say you'd take your kids up to the protest site, with tires burning everywhere, petrol bombs exploding, bullets getting fired left right and center, and not even any decent living conditions. Perhaps the reds are counting on the effectiveness of human shields, particularly when those shields are still kids - DISGUSTING. If you want to fight, go ahead and do so, but leave the kids at home where they can run about and be kids.
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

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http://www.smh.com.au/world/bangkok-hot ... utostart=1

First Thai soldier killed in recent attacks
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

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Takiap,

Reading the above opinion article, I can see why people are not leaving...

The brainwashing into making people think if they leave they'll be shot.

Voranai (the journo) who wrote the article said it took him 5 hours to get out of the protest site, because the Red Guards kept stopping him and telling also.

Those two reasons are (from his perspective which I believe) are stopping people from leaving.

Add to the fact that the propaganda is spewing out "Abhisit is a murderer. They're trying to kill ALL of us."

The screaming and paranoia in these people at the moment would be terrifying...I hope this situation gets resolved soon and this kind of scenario never happens again, from both sides.
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

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Takiap wrote: Can any parent on this forum honestly say you'd take your kids up to the protest site, with tires burning everywhere, petrol bombs exploding, bullets getting fired left right and center, and not even any decent living conditions. Perhaps the reds are counting on the effectiveness of human shields, particularly when those shields are still kids - DISGUSTING. If you want to fight, go ahead and do so, but leave the kids at home where they can run about and be kids.
Absolutely, its deplorable. Just shows you how far a bit of brainwashing and a few handouts go, sad times indeed for Thailand.

The military have been remarkably restrained, they're not the ones using heavy weapons that a certain Mr T has been shipping across the Cambodian border for the past two years. This is a very well funded and orchestrated rebellion and it needs to stop before the country ends up like Somalia.
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

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Takiap wrote:Maybe I'm mistaken, but I was watching some footage yesterday and in my opinion, not everyone throwing petrol bombs is doing it for political reasons. I got the impression that some of them are merely taking advantage of the situation to run riot, much the same as you see when rival students gangs have a go at each other. Some of those throwing the bottles really seemed to be doing it for fun, not to mention the fact that they were only tossing the bottles about five meters or so, and almost none burst into flames. As for the chap trying to set that tanker alight, what the hell was he thinking? That's serious business so no wonder they took him down...................
Yes, this happened during the 1992 trouble. There were young thugs riding around on motorbikes smashing traffic lights, and other utilities. There is also the fact that some of them will take advantage of the situation to settle old scores. It is very possible that this is what happened to Seh Daeng. :guns:
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

Post by Roel »

Seh Daeng died in hospital this morning: more fuel on the fire.
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

Post by cozza »

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Du ... 29543.html

RPG attacks on Dusit BKK...attacking the establishment???
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

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Re: Political un-rest and rally

Post by Arcadian »

Sky news are reporting today that the shooting of the renegade general sparked off the latest round of violence, that`s not right is it?
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

Post by BaaBaa. »

It pretty much brought everything to a head.
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

Post by caller »

Here's the guy shot in the leg.



To me, the best articles are in New Madala and certainly the article on a 'massacre'. But it will be hated by several here!

An interesting question that might be explored is how and why this mess has divided expats/visitors/forum mongers and not just on HHAD? Is it because you feel concern for your present, your future, is it your political views, governed by where the missus comes from, views on what cannot be discussed, the way the situation has been allowed to escalate, the way its being dealt with now and so on?

I can't find the article now, they are all so fast moving, but in response to the call for the UN to negotiate, one Govt. spolesman, apart from the usual waffle about Thailand being a sovereign state, mentioned that Thailand had never let anyone interfere with its internal affairs, so that excludes the Japanese invasion and the rest of WW2 then - it might have been better if they had!
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Re: Political un-rest and rally

Post by buksida »

Trying to get some live feeds here but they are thin on the ground, most western media offer the usual slanted blog commentary shite from people that have limited knowledge of the situation and the Thai channels are either pro government or blocked by the ICT.

Here are some that may or may not work for you:

http://www.astv-tv.com/new1_broadcast.html
ASTV - pro Yellow channel

http://www.springnewstv.com/
Independent - currently blocked by ICT, the IP redirect may work though.

http://www.tnnthailand.com/live/live_low.html
TNN - Independent TV channel that was on all morning and is now 'having problems'.

The Nation is a waste of space, the 'live update' link just redirects to a visa forum.

The Post has nothing since the news of Seh Daeng's demise.

All reporters were urged to clear the area ... welcome to the media block-out :cuss:

caller, interesting questions - could be worth a thread on their own though.
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