Sorry to hear that Richard. TiTrichard wrote:Well we are in deep sh1t here in BK.
Daughters were due to fly out Monday (19th) after 2 weeks in HH of chill out. We are now parked in BK having to visit the airport every day despite having been allocated a position on the standby list.Last input from EVA (or should it be EVILA?) was you will be out by Thursday.
Choice of hotels?. Crummy joints near the airport or luxury jobies downtown. With an early rise to hit the airport and then to spend the rest of the day in a crummy is not on. So it's got to be downtown
Facts
My daughters were told get on the wait list and EVA will call you. Tuesday- No you have to turn up every day. Friday - OK for Sunday but may be Wednesday next week
Both need to get home for serious business reasons
EVA AIR
Well I have always flown EVA because it is a good airline as have my daughters but it is now failing in it's commitments to customers
1) They are totally disorganised in their approach to a crisis
2) All log ins are done in hand written form
3) All other airlines are offering accommodation and meal tickets to passengers. EVA no way
Contactable on the phone with dumbos on the end who no nothing.
ANYBODY KNOW AN EMAIL ADDRESS FOR EVA?
To further complicate matters we have the troubles going on now in BK mounting and we are marooned in a hotel
Bumped into the Reds several times during the day but not at dusk
OK
I admit to being very pissed posting this but I'm pissed off and posting in the hope I can contact EVA via email with your help
See you all in in HH soon (I hope)
PS. Wife has asked me to go back to Khon Kaen as soon as my daughters are out as most villagers there are on the move to BK and maybe safer for me there than outside Isaan. Comments on that please!!!!!
Political un-rest and rally
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Re: Political un-rest and rally
Re: Political un-rest and rally
100% correct IMO and the reason behind that is Mr. T. He was almost open about it when he was in office. This is his last hurrah and he knows it. Guaranteed he won't spend all his money supporting this. When his purse closes, so do the demonstrations. As to why he's still here? Good question and I'm sure that's been discussed in a variety of ways in chambers. PeteTakiap wrote:.....The answer, was because the reds are not in favor of having (can't talk about this).
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Now if the army forced MR T out of office and now MR A is in power with no election doesent that make this government a junta, your opinions please! i think that the UN should try to intervene to have fair elections as i cant see a resolution to this.
Done a little bit of digging around the internet, and nobody wants a repeate of 1992 where the army fired live rounds into the protesters, Thai's massacring Thai's for so called democracy.
There is the potential for another blood bath here, but the big difference is from 1992 is that internet and camera phones makes the world a very small accessable place, and if this really does kick off the whole world will be watching and Thailand can kiss good by to its tourist industry and other high level investment, if i wasent married to a Thai i would not bother going to Thailand at the moment i would have a look else where.
Who ever gets into power can somebody try and make them realise that if they made it easyer for farangs to stay run bussiness house and land ownership change visa rules it would really benafit the Thai economy...................o i am dreaming now Thailand will allways go around in circle's.
Kendo. 
Done a little bit of digging around the internet, and nobody wants a repeate of 1992 where the army fired live rounds into the protesters, Thai's massacring Thai's for so called democracy.
There is the potential for another blood bath here, but the big difference is from 1992 is that internet and camera phones makes the world a very small accessable place, and if this really does kick off the whole world will be watching and Thailand can kiss good by to its tourist industry and other high level investment, if i wasent married to a Thai i would not bother going to Thailand at the moment i would have a look else where.
Who ever gets into power can somebody try and make them realise that if they made it easyer for farangs to stay run bussiness house and land ownership change visa rules it would really benafit the Thai economy...................o i am dreaming now Thailand will allways go around in circle's.
Kendo.
Is Bangkok a place or a nasty injury.......Eric Morcombe.
Proud to be a Southampton FC Fan.
Proud to be a Southampton FC Fan.
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Great post Takiap!
Thailand needs stability right now. There will be a massive power vacuum open up very soon, if this keeps going it could split the country in 2. We could sit here and argue for weeks, whats worse, an unelected government, forced on the people or a bloodthirsty PM who does dodgy backroom deals selling Thai business to foreigners? There is bad in both, but Thailand needs to focus on its future stability and then peacefuly set up campaign for equality. Not through violence and manipulation!
If you look at the no colour rallies and the bashing of the red shirt protester in the garage, you can see a clear difference in the way the police and army treat both sides. With reds they shake hands, yellows they knock over they're bikes and really try to catch them...surely not all are like this, but the problem with a military crackdown is that MOST soldiers (I say confidently) are Red supporters.
Gen.Anupong knows this for sure and can see how its a bad idea just like April 10. It will not be spoken about because its a loss of face and shows signs he is lossing control of the military (army).
Thailand needs stability right now. There will be a massive power vacuum open up very soon, if this keeps going it could split the country in 2. We could sit here and argue for weeks, whats worse, an unelected government, forced on the people or a bloodthirsty PM who does dodgy backroom deals selling Thai business to foreigners? There is bad in both, but Thailand needs to focus on its future stability and then peacefuly set up campaign for equality. Not through violence and manipulation!
If you look at the no colour rallies and the bashing of the red shirt protester in the garage, you can see a clear difference in the way the police and army treat both sides. With reds they shake hands, yellows they knock over they're bikes and really try to catch them...surely not all are like this, but the problem with a military crackdown is that MOST soldiers (I say confidently) are Red supporters.
Gen.Anupong knows this for sure and can see how its a bad idea just like April 10. It will not be spoken about because its a loss of face and shows signs he is lossing control of the military (army).
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Am I colour blind??? Let me guess, Red supporter?
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Without doubt, its the working class heritage that does it......I think it started with the Tolpuddle Martyrs c1833.
Its just that I can't recall yellow shirts being attacked and shot at by the Police/Army/whoever when they did their thing the other year? And look what that achieved.
Its just that I can't recall yellow shirts being attacked and shot at by the Police/Army/whoever when they did their thing the other year? And look what that achieved.
Talk is cheap
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Thailand is a deeply troubled country. The divide between the rich and poor is obscene, really beyond what is acceptable. One only has to wander a short distance from the over-the-top displays of opulence at shopping malls to see shanty towns without the most basic of facilities even in Bangkok, let alone comparing to elsewhere in the country. This, along with a government lacking the tools to govern properly including tax collection, law enforcement, etc, makes it an easy target for those who mean to take over the government.
I went to the protest site last weekend to see for myself what was going on. I had a Thai friend with me translating various things as we saw what was there. A number of things struck me. The first is that there's a lot of kids there. Far too many. The parents are incredibly irresponsible bringing kids to something like that, and seem oblivious to their role as human shield (which I'll come to later).
All around there were offensive slogans in Thai graffiti'd onto walls and on posters and banners. Abhisit depicted as hitler stuck to the floor for people to walk on. And considering the red denial that it's about Thaksin, the amount of times I saw his face on things was pretty impressive, including a stall selling red-branded mobile phones with a life-size cut-out Thaksin as part of the display. This level of commercialisation and organisation continued to a very well-organised set-up where people could sign up for membership cards. There were laptops everywhere, projectors putting out red-tinted propaganda and speakers pumping out hate at a volume to deafen anyone who hung around long enough. Let's just say it'd be pretty tough for anyone to express reservations about anything there, one gets the impression you'd be lynched. Group-think anyone?
The police were present a little before the main red security gate, but after that, there was no police presence, reds were functioning as police. It's literally a state-within-a-state and quite a surreal experience to be honest.
One thing which really disappointed me was how Thais there were speaking about the one person all Thais used to love, someone who has dug them out of some pretty big holes in the past. Can't say who but you know who I mean. It's clear that Thaksin's had his say here.
As far as the ordinary people go, I honestly feel they've been heavily brainwashed. It's really like a cult when you're in there. The leadership has gone to extraordinary lengths in terms of information control and also making dispersal extremely difficult. As such, the protesters don't have much of an escape route, so if soldiers move in they can't run away, meaning they have to fight.
The leaders themselves are abhorrent. Reading through translations of their speeches, there's so much hate, so much vitriol and so much that is just plain untrue. And now we know that they were indeed co-ordinating with the 'blackshirts' (likely under Seh Daeng's command). It was already obvious to most of us as the uniforms were basically the same as the red shirt guards, so it's clear they're the same people. All through this leaders have claimed peaceful protest while threatening violence, giving out home addresses of prominent people (such as the top guy at the Electoral Commission) and more recently promising to send a contingent of reds on motorbikes to meet Dr Tul (of the multi-colour group). Their way is threats and intimidation, and they're fighting a vicious propaganda war, willing to sacrifice the lives of their own to achieve their goals.
The red base is now heavily fortified with bamboo spikes, lpg cannisters (one shot and they go boom), tyres covered in diesel, etc. These are unusual steps for a peaceful protest. Every night the leaders tell the crowd they'll be attacked, keeping them in perpetual fear and a constant state of alert. Sleep deprivation and brainwashing anyone?
Recent attacks on clearly civilian targets such as the BTS make clear that this is now not a class war as some here think, but an attempt to use terrorism to take over the state. They can get away with this because the police are unwilling to do their job (in any other country this would not happen, they'd be fired, which shows their services are available to the highest bidder) and the army are split right through with informants everywhere providing reds with full details of their every move. In this state of paranoia, combined with a lack of proper training and equipment, let alone discipline, the army has little chance when facing a highly-organised, well-trained, well-equipped blackshirt group under Seh Daeng's command. As I speak, blackshirts are surrounding Lumpini Park, heavily armed, waiting for suitable targets.
Interesting to see how red leaders were so willing to negotiate when Methee started supplying the government with info, softening the crowd up for 'compromise'. They knew that they were implicated and faced prison. My guess is that they asked for amnesty, the government said no and that's why they're now planning to step things up. As such, amnesty would have been a bad move as it would have given carte blanche to other groups to do the same.
Unfortunately this government is weak. The government itself is a coalition, which means that Abhisit has to walk a tightrope to keep things together. He has no effective police to carry out law enforcement (they lack proper training and are clearly 100% unwilling to fight against their buddy Thaksin), and has had to bring in the army who are ill-equipped and poorly-trained (the captured soldiers who were on the redshirt stage didn't exactly look in the best physical shape did they).
Now as for the legitimacy of the government, it's not 100% legitimate but no government ever has been in Thailand. Thaksin bought votes and killed opponents, or had them disappear. Why was he removed by the army? Probably because he wanted to be a little more permanent than an elected politician and wanted you-know-who out. Had he managed that Thailand wouldn't be a good place to be. A coup is never desirable, but he was sufficiently powerful that nothing else would do.
In the aftermath, TRT's successor parties gained power and were dissolved for fraud and corruption. The courts took out the government of the day, a brave move indeed. As such the present government was formed in much the same way as most European governments are formed. The elected MPs gave each party a certain number of votes in parliament. Enough got together to form a coalition. The process is much the same as would happen anywhere else in the world, and could soon happen in the UK if we have a hung parliament.
The future? For that one must look to the past. The police and army failed to tackle the yellows when they did their thing. This was a grave mistake as it led to a view (probably accurate) of double-standards, and gave the reds some extra motivation and support, as well as showing them the kind of tactics that could work. Reds took it up a notch. If the reds win, the next group will undoubtedly take it up another notch. Whichever side you support (or none at all as in my case) no-one should consider that escalation sane. Ultimately, it must be stopped now, with nothing gained by the reds, or else the next group disgruntled at the government will do exactly the same, or worse.
Beyond the present conflict things are cloudy. We now have a clearly established problem of the government lacking the tools to govern. Governments of either colour cannot control the police or the army, making the state vulnerable to takeover by any private army that fancies it (such as Thaksin's army headed by Seh Daeng). It therefore means that the only people who can run this country are those with their own private army. Who does that leave us with? Take a guess.
Should Abhisit get through this, it is clear to me that the army and police require major reform, with the state as their primary loyalty. Until that happens we will never see Thailand progress beyond the trend throughout its existence of coup, counter-coup, or as is the more modern case mob, counter-mob. The boys in brown need to become a professional and well-paid unit not dependent upon bribes. The army need to be professionals, not conscripts, trained hard to become a disciplined fighting force, fit and ready, with proper equipment for modern warfare (some neighbouring countries must fancy their chances right now). Corruption in both police and army needs to be rooted out.
Also, the rich-poor divide must be fixed. This can't be done by giving everyone 500 baht at each election. It needs investment in education infrastructure, eradication of corruption that determines only those who pay the bribe can go to the right university, and provision of the means for all to grab opportunity. Better to lift the 'prai' to become 'elite' than to do as red leaders want to do and bring the 'elite' to the level of 'prai'.
I hope Thailand can get through this mess and come out better for it. The positive thing is that many people are now thinking about things they previously buried their heads in the sand about. The shame is that it is costing lives.
I went to the protest site last weekend to see for myself what was going on. I had a Thai friend with me translating various things as we saw what was there. A number of things struck me. The first is that there's a lot of kids there. Far too many. The parents are incredibly irresponsible bringing kids to something like that, and seem oblivious to their role as human shield (which I'll come to later).
All around there were offensive slogans in Thai graffiti'd onto walls and on posters and banners. Abhisit depicted as hitler stuck to the floor for people to walk on. And considering the red denial that it's about Thaksin, the amount of times I saw his face on things was pretty impressive, including a stall selling red-branded mobile phones with a life-size cut-out Thaksin as part of the display. This level of commercialisation and organisation continued to a very well-organised set-up where people could sign up for membership cards. There were laptops everywhere, projectors putting out red-tinted propaganda and speakers pumping out hate at a volume to deafen anyone who hung around long enough. Let's just say it'd be pretty tough for anyone to express reservations about anything there, one gets the impression you'd be lynched. Group-think anyone?
The police were present a little before the main red security gate, but after that, there was no police presence, reds were functioning as police. It's literally a state-within-a-state and quite a surreal experience to be honest.
One thing which really disappointed me was how Thais there were speaking about the one person all Thais used to love, someone who has dug them out of some pretty big holes in the past. Can't say who but you know who I mean. It's clear that Thaksin's had his say here.
As far as the ordinary people go, I honestly feel they've been heavily brainwashed. It's really like a cult when you're in there. The leadership has gone to extraordinary lengths in terms of information control and also making dispersal extremely difficult. As such, the protesters don't have much of an escape route, so if soldiers move in they can't run away, meaning they have to fight.
The leaders themselves are abhorrent. Reading through translations of their speeches, there's so much hate, so much vitriol and so much that is just plain untrue. And now we know that they were indeed co-ordinating with the 'blackshirts' (likely under Seh Daeng's command). It was already obvious to most of us as the uniforms were basically the same as the red shirt guards, so it's clear they're the same people. All through this leaders have claimed peaceful protest while threatening violence, giving out home addresses of prominent people (such as the top guy at the Electoral Commission) and more recently promising to send a contingent of reds on motorbikes to meet Dr Tul (of the multi-colour group). Their way is threats and intimidation, and they're fighting a vicious propaganda war, willing to sacrifice the lives of their own to achieve their goals.
The red base is now heavily fortified with bamboo spikes, lpg cannisters (one shot and they go boom), tyres covered in diesel, etc. These are unusual steps for a peaceful protest. Every night the leaders tell the crowd they'll be attacked, keeping them in perpetual fear and a constant state of alert. Sleep deprivation and brainwashing anyone?
Recent attacks on clearly civilian targets such as the BTS make clear that this is now not a class war as some here think, but an attempt to use terrorism to take over the state. They can get away with this because the police are unwilling to do their job (in any other country this would not happen, they'd be fired, which shows their services are available to the highest bidder) and the army are split right through with informants everywhere providing reds with full details of their every move. In this state of paranoia, combined with a lack of proper training and equipment, let alone discipline, the army has little chance when facing a highly-organised, well-trained, well-equipped blackshirt group under Seh Daeng's command. As I speak, blackshirts are surrounding Lumpini Park, heavily armed, waiting for suitable targets.
Interesting to see how red leaders were so willing to negotiate when Methee started supplying the government with info, softening the crowd up for 'compromise'. They knew that they were implicated and faced prison. My guess is that they asked for amnesty, the government said no and that's why they're now planning to step things up. As such, amnesty would have been a bad move as it would have given carte blanche to other groups to do the same.
Unfortunately this government is weak. The government itself is a coalition, which means that Abhisit has to walk a tightrope to keep things together. He has no effective police to carry out law enforcement (they lack proper training and are clearly 100% unwilling to fight against their buddy Thaksin), and has had to bring in the army who are ill-equipped and poorly-trained (the captured soldiers who were on the redshirt stage didn't exactly look in the best physical shape did they).
Now as for the legitimacy of the government, it's not 100% legitimate but no government ever has been in Thailand. Thaksin bought votes and killed opponents, or had them disappear. Why was he removed by the army? Probably because he wanted to be a little more permanent than an elected politician and wanted you-know-who out. Had he managed that Thailand wouldn't be a good place to be. A coup is never desirable, but he was sufficiently powerful that nothing else would do.
In the aftermath, TRT's successor parties gained power and were dissolved for fraud and corruption. The courts took out the government of the day, a brave move indeed. As such the present government was formed in much the same way as most European governments are formed. The elected MPs gave each party a certain number of votes in parliament. Enough got together to form a coalition. The process is much the same as would happen anywhere else in the world, and could soon happen in the UK if we have a hung parliament.
The future? For that one must look to the past. The police and army failed to tackle the yellows when they did their thing. This was a grave mistake as it led to a view (probably accurate) of double-standards, and gave the reds some extra motivation and support, as well as showing them the kind of tactics that could work. Reds took it up a notch. If the reds win, the next group will undoubtedly take it up another notch. Whichever side you support (or none at all as in my case) no-one should consider that escalation sane. Ultimately, it must be stopped now, with nothing gained by the reds, or else the next group disgruntled at the government will do exactly the same, or worse.
Beyond the present conflict things are cloudy. We now have a clearly established problem of the government lacking the tools to govern. Governments of either colour cannot control the police or the army, making the state vulnerable to takeover by any private army that fancies it (such as Thaksin's army headed by Seh Daeng). It therefore means that the only people who can run this country are those with their own private army. Who does that leave us with? Take a guess.
Should Abhisit get through this, it is clear to me that the army and police require major reform, with the state as their primary loyalty. Until that happens we will never see Thailand progress beyond the trend throughout its existence of coup, counter-coup, or as is the more modern case mob, counter-mob. The boys in brown need to become a professional and well-paid unit not dependent upon bribes. The army need to be professionals, not conscripts, trained hard to become a disciplined fighting force, fit and ready, with proper equipment for modern warfare (some neighbouring countries must fancy their chances right now). Corruption in both police and army needs to be rooted out.
Also, the rich-poor divide must be fixed. This can't be done by giving everyone 500 baht at each election. It needs investment in education infrastructure, eradication of corruption that determines only those who pay the bribe can go to the right university, and provision of the means for all to grab opportunity. Better to lift the 'prai' to become 'elite' than to do as red leaders want to do and bring the 'elite' to the level of 'prai'.
I hope Thailand can get through this mess and come out better for it. The positive thing is that many people are now thinking about things they previously buried their heads in the sand about. The shame is that it is costing lives.
Re: Political un-rest and rally
The media had actually progressed beyond smoke signals in 1992. The trouble was broadcast back then, but the truth is most of the Western world hadn't discovered, and definitely didn't care about Thailand.kendo wrote:There is the potential for another blood bath here, but the big difference is from 1992 is that internet and camera phones makes the world a very small accessable place, and if this really does kick off the whole world will be watching and Thailand can kiss good by to its tourist industry and other high level investment, if i wasent married to a Thai i would not bother going to Thailand at the moment i would have a look else where.
If anything, tourism grew after the 1992 fracas.
Championship Plymouth Argyle 1 - 2 Leeds Utd 
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Points 46; Position 23 RELEGATED
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Hi Big Boy,
I am not saying Thailand was that backward in 1992, my point is that the digital age has made media excessable to even the porest of people and it is getting cheaper year on year mobile phones and the internet could you imagine life right now with out them.
World wide travel has also become very very cheap and is more excessable to most people i.e my first holiday to Thailand 14 nights in the Regent Cha Am room only £460 non direct flight with Qatar airlines it was cheaper to go there for two weeks than to go to Ibiza.
When this Volcano through the dust up, on the lunch time news they interviewed this guy from Netflights and he said the most popular capital city destination booked on the internet was Bangkok and from the U.K there was 850,000 bookings a year!
Richard,
I have read that your girls are caught up in this natral and non natral disaster firstly my hart goes out to you, i have to sets of friends marooned in Bangkok one is a couple that went on there holiday for two weeks to Udon we have had no contact with them, and they are 7 days late, and the other two is my mates i drink with they are also a week late, they have been on a boys jolly for three weeks, they have been in touch with another mate and they have been told due to the political unrest that it would be at least the 3 May before they can fly home, but i am note sure who there airline is.
Kendo.
I am not saying Thailand was that backward in 1992, my point is that the digital age has made media excessable to even the porest of people and it is getting cheaper year on year mobile phones and the internet could you imagine life right now with out them.
World wide travel has also become very very cheap and is more excessable to most people i.e my first holiday to Thailand 14 nights in the Regent Cha Am room only £460 non direct flight with Qatar airlines it was cheaper to go there for two weeks than to go to Ibiza.
When this Volcano through the dust up, on the lunch time news they interviewed this guy from Netflights and he said the most popular capital city destination booked on the internet was Bangkok and from the U.K there was 850,000 bookings a year!
Richard,
I have read that your girls are caught up in this natral and non natral disaster firstly my hart goes out to you, i have to sets of friends marooned in Bangkok one is a couple that went on there holiday for two weeks to Udon we have had no contact with them, and they are 7 days late, and the other two is my mates i drink with they are also a week late, they have been on a boys jolly for three weeks, they have been in touch with another mate and they have been told due to the political unrest that it would be at least the 3 May before they can fly home, but i am note sure who there airline is.
Kendo.
Is Bangkok a place or a nasty injury.......Eric Morcombe.
Proud to be a Southampton FC Fan.
Proud to be a Southampton FC Fan.
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Caller,
Sorry, I dont get your first sentence.
Are you suggesting the soldiers are yellow supporters?
I have many friends from Naresuan...they all support Thaksin and red shirts...they are royal guard! Ask them yourself if you think I am full of it!
Sorry, I dont get your first sentence.
Are you suggesting the soldiers are yellow supporters?
I have many friends from Naresuan...they all support Thaksin and red shirts...they are royal guard! Ask them yourself if you think I am full of it!
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Excellent post STW_Ryan, very insightful and a good summary of what is really going on up there. Its a shame the likes of the BBC and other western media can't offer more of the same in their reports.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
Re: Political un-rest and rally
I agree...excellent post STW_Ryan.
I agree Buksida about the media, but what matters even more is that the Thai people who are joining these mobs see the big picture. Its very sad.
I agree Buksida about the media, but what matters even more is that the Thai people who are joining these mobs see the big picture. Its very sad.
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Well I'm rather surprised, I was expecting to get ripped apart in traditional HHAD style. Regarding the BBC, yep, they've gone down in my estimation. A new low was reporting (on the day the red leaders crapped themselves because Methee was singing like a bird) that the reds were offering to compromise with the government with no background info. They were basically presenting it as the reds unilaterally compromising out of the goodness of their hearts. I honestly thought more of the BBC but seeing the incomplete reporting and shocking lack of depth of knowledge they have shown I will be much more skeptical regarding BBC reporting in future.
BTW apologies for the long post guys. I didnt sign up here to post political stuff, rather to respond a while back to some rather ill-thought-out negative stuff being posted. However, this needed sying.
BTW apologies for the long post guys. I didnt sign up here to post political stuff, rather to respond a while back to some rather ill-thought-out negative stuff being posted. However, this needed sying.
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Everyone has their views (even myself) that others see differently or similarly, cant make everyone happy!
To be extremely stereotypical (not meaning to single anyone out or be judgmental) but those with Issan partners seem to be sympathetic to the Reds. I would love to be told or proved otherwise though...
I personally found it very insightful, good to see you write as you see it.
I follow the local Sydney Morning Herald, which keeps saying that is the poor vs bangkok elite...shits me.
To be extremely stereotypical (not meaning to single anyone out or be judgmental) but those with Issan partners seem to be sympathetic to the Reds. I would love to be told or proved otherwise though...
I personally found it very insightful, good to see you write as you see it.
I follow the local Sydney Morning Herald, which keeps saying that is the poor vs bangkok elite...shits me.