As you are probably aware we have a problem which we have tried to resolve to no avail, we were/ are going to have to resort to a court case, but after reading your answers to my questions relating to the courts in Thailand we wondered if anyone had a better suggestion.
The basic problem is we live on a small street of houses, the street was signed over to the tessabahn by the builder, the electricity is supplied direct from the electric company but the water is supplied by two wells jointly owned by the residents. This was signed over by the builder last August.
Later that year some of the residents decided to form a voluntary association to keep the streets clean etc, they also seem to think (wrongly) that they own the wells.
One particular person has been a bit of a pest, first he came on to our garden and was abusive to our gardener telling him to stop watering the garden and turned of our water. When we were next at the house we reorganised the watering system so that it was done more gently thus wasting less water, however this was not enough for these people and they were insistent on moving our stopcock to outside our land expressly against our wishes, this was not done until we were out of the country. We have the largest garden and it was felt by our neighbours that it was unfair for us all to pay the same for the electricity supplying the water, fine we are happy to pay more,but they wanted meters fitting. Again okay.
We have now received a demand from this person (as treasurer) to say if we do not pay by the 31st of July they will disconnect our water.
The bill is for an over inflated estimate of water usage for next year, a maintenance fee for upkeep of the pumps even though they will not tell/show us what they have done with last years money and a fee for the association of which we are not members,it has been made clear we have no say in the street, water etc as we do not live there.
As a voluntary association these people do not have any legal standing and cannot make people do as they say.
All we want is a peaceful life and for this person to leave us alone but he does not seem to be able to do this, and he does not seem to understand he cannot turn our water off.
If you were us what would you do?
What would you do- your suggestions ?
Hi sam,
Knowing a bit about your circumstances, if I were the individual concerned, I would be less worried about causing you problems regarding your water supply and more concerned about the new 'Working Aliens Act 2551 (2008)', which replaces the previous act of 1978, you can find it on many lawyers websites. It's been revised to impose far stiffer penalties on those without work permits, amongst other thimgs.
Some key changes include:
- Fines increased to 100,000 Baht, with and/or
- Imprisonment term, increased to 5 years.
- Alien has option to leave country in 30 days to avoid the prison time.
- Immigration have greater powers to arrest and detain Aliens suspected.
- Work Permits can now be renewed for a 2 year period now. Not sure this change is relevant in this case!?
splitlid's given the best practical advice IMO, you'd probably have to put one in anyway taking the court route, due to court process times.
Good luck with it,
SJ
Knowing a bit about your circumstances, if I were the individual concerned, I would be less worried about causing you problems regarding your water supply and more concerned about the new 'Working Aliens Act 2551 (2008)', which replaces the previous act of 1978, you can find it on many lawyers websites. It's been revised to impose far stiffer penalties on those without work permits, amongst other thimgs.
Some key changes include:
- Fines increased to 100,000 Baht, with and/or
- Imprisonment term, increased to 5 years.
- Alien has option to leave country in 30 days to avoid the prison time.
- Immigration have greater powers to arrest and detain Aliens suspected.
- Work Permits can now be renewed for a 2 year period now. Not sure this change is relevant in this case!?
splitlid's given the best practical advice IMO, you'd probably have to put one in anyway taking the court route, due to court process times.
Good luck with it,
SJ
Last edited by Super Joe on Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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malcolminthemiddle
- Guru
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- Location: Here,there and everywhere
Hi Sam,
If I were you the first thing I would do is put any thought of court action on hold.
This is because it is evident from your post that you have not yet established all the facts.
In Thailand it is common for the residents of a development to establish a juristic entity known as a Nitubikon Moo Baan Jadsan or Homeowner Association to take over the management of the common areas and utilities from the developer . The forming of this juristic entity can be done with or without the Developers consent. To form a juristic entity 51% of the owners would have to agree to a resolution to form the entity. With such an entity an appointed juristic person acts in accordance with the directions given by the elected officers of the juristic entity. The juristic person should be a Thai to prevent any the Work Permit issues that SJ has mentioned.
The juristic entity may or may not request the local authority to adopt a road thereby making the road public and subject to maintenance by the local authority.
I suggest you investigate the following:
Whether a Homeowner Association has been registered?
Who are the elected officers?
Exactly who controls each utility?
Under what authority the “Treasurer” is acting?
Please post your findings here.
If I were you the first thing I would do is put any thought of court action on hold.
This is because it is evident from your post that you have not yet established all the facts.
In Thailand it is common for the residents of a development to establish a juristic entity known as a Nitubikon Moo Baan Jadsan or Homeowner Association to take over the management of the common areas and utilities from the developer . The forming of this juristic entity can be done with or without the Developers consent. To form a juristic entity 51% of the owners would have to agree to a resolution to form the entity. With such an entity an appointed juristic person acts in accordance with the directions given by the elected officers of the juristic entity. The juristic person should be a Thai to prevent any the Work Permit issues that SJ has mentioned.
The juristic entity may or may not request the local authority to adopt a road thereby making the road public and subject to maintenance by the local authority.
I suggest you investigate the following:
Whether a Homeowner Association has been registered?
Who are the elected officers?
Exactly who controls each utility?
Under what authority the “Treasurer” is acting?
Please post your findings here.
Hi Malcolm,
The association is only voluntary (not registered)
There are no elected officers.
The electricity is supplied directly from the electric board ( we pay by standing order)
The water is from two wells owned by all 19 houses equally (not the voluntary association)
The street was signed over to the tessabahn by the developer on completion of the estate ( there are two small areas with plants which I believe are common areas)
The treasurer volunteered himself it was never put up for a vote.
We are looking for alternatives to court action, SJ's looks like it may be a possibility.
Any other ideas?
The association is only voluntary (not registered)
There are no elected officers.
The electricity is supplied directly from the electric board ( we pay by standing order)
The water is from two wells owned by all 19 houses equally (not the voluntary association)
The street was signed over to the tessabahn by the developer on completion of the estate ( there are two small areas with plants which I believe are common areas)
The treasurer volunteered himself it was never put up for a vote.
We are looking for alternatives to court action, SJ's looks like it may be a possibility.
Any other ideas?
Sam, is your wife Thai or do you have any good Thai friends? If so, I would go have a chat with a police officer, preferably of officer rank, explain the situation to him, give him a reasonable tip, and have him go inform the gentlemen that if he or anyone else comes onto your property again or tampers with your utilities, they will be arrested. He could throw the work permit in for extra measure. This in itself should wake the guy up.
You then need to make some fair arrangement concerning your water usage and as mentioned above, dig your own well as soon as you can. Even with that it may not be over as they may then say your well is reducing 'their' water table.
This guy is a farang. He has no power whatsoever even if his house is company owned or leasehold. He controls nothing concerning land and most certainly not the utilities. The association is not even legal or registered.
He's on a power trip and playing hardball with you. I would play some with him. Pete
You then need to make some fair arrangement concerning your water usage and as mentioned above, dig your own well as soon as you can. Even with that it may not be over as they may then say your well is reducing 'their' water table.
This guy is a farang. He has no power whatsoever even if his house is company owned or leasehold. He controls nothing concerning land and most certainly not the utilities. The association is not even legal or registered.
He's on a power trip and playing hardball with you. I would play some with him. Pete
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Of course get some quotes. I have a 150' over the other side of the gulf from you including submersible pump and tank automatic fill sensor that cost 90 two years ago. Petesplitlid wrote:get your own well dug, and live your life.
court cases/ arguements with neighbours blah blah blah can be injurious to health,
150,000 ish for a bore. end of.
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
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margaretcarnes
- Rock Star
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- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:28 am
- Location: The Rhubarb Triangle
What would you do - your suggestions?
I hope you can resolve the problem peacefully Sam by having your own well or tank. But the annoying thing is that you shouldn't have to resort to that, as you say you part own the existing wells anyway.
The Management Company setup described by Malcolminthemiddle is common in the UK, and can work very well. I had a house on a small development 30 years ago with some communal gardens, potential public footpath, common frontage to garages etc, and a management company was set up by the residents. Partly to deal with maintainance of communal areas. Also to deal with the legalities of preventing public 'right of way' and to get the road adopted.
It worked extremely well with only 2 of the 22 homeowners declining to join. We even bought shared gardening equipment and ladders. BUT such an organisation has to be run along strict committee type procedures, which include regular meetings and democratic election of treasurer and other posts.
Work permit issues aside, this doesn't seem to have happened in your Soi and I'm wondering why other residents have apparently allowed one person to dictate what goes on. Have you discussed the problems with your neighbours?
The Management Company setup described by Malcolminthemiddle is common in the UK, and can work very well. I had a house on a small development 30 years ago with some communal gardens, potential public footpath, common frontage to garages etc, and a management company was set up by the residents. Partly to deal with maintainance of communal areas. Also to deal with the legalities of preventing public 'right of way' and to get the road adopted.
It worked extremely well with only 2 of the 22 homeowners declining to join. We even bought shared gardening equipment and ladders. BUT such an organisation has to be run along strict committee type procedures, which include regular meetings and democratic election of treasurer and other posts.
Work permit issues aside, this doesn't seem to have happened in your Soi and I'm wondering why other residents have apparently allowed one person to dictate what goes on. Have you discussed the problems with your neighbours?
A sprout is for life - not just for Christmas.
