Another crackdown on border runners

[Super Joe]

Me on the other hand falls slightly short of the 40,000 per month so of course I'm not welcome.

Genuinely feel for you but if you can't meet their criteria then what can you do. If your wife's cashed up There's numerous easy 'fixes' to make up your small shortfall UK end to get the Embassy Income Confirmation letter you need. Some say you need to show your income being sent over into a Thai Bank (also easy to sort) though others say they've got it without the book.

Also, for those who think it's impossible, we do get by on less than 40,000 per month as neither of us hang out in the bars, etc, and yes, we only eat Thai food which is mostly prepared by ourselves at home

Yeah sure people can get by ok on 40k, but what I was getting at is those with 3 kids at Somtawin, tuition fees, school trips, clothing, dentistry, all the extra-curriculum activities kids love, PC for their development, so that's 25k out of someone's 40k leaving them just 15k. That would put a dampner on things.

The other important thing is about the combined income is this visa is not to support a spouse but also children. So if anything happened to wife that prevented her earning and the farang didn't have the 40k he'd be stuffed come extension time.

Good luck with it all anyway,

SJ

[buksida]

SJ, you should really work for immigration, you're sounding like one of them more every day.

Here is a hypothetical one we'll see if you can answer:

Alien works in Thailand on B visa with WP and paying tax for ten years.

Alien is married with two children.

Work dries up and alien gets '7 day red card', cancellation of visa and wp.

Alien has no income or assets overseas and is well under 50.

Aside from finding another company to provide a WP which is virtually impossible in the current economic climate what are the visa options?

[lomuamart]

Just to try and clarify things, remember that the 40K/400K is applicable for annual visa extensions.
Visas themselves are different. Assuming that you'd be applying for a non Imm O from a neighbouring country, some ask for proof of funds if multi entry and some don't. Some ask for proof one month and don't the next. Amounts vary from country to country. For example, Singapore were recently asking for proof of 200K in a Thai bank (not any more). Penang wouldn't give me a multi entry despite my taking 6 months bank statements from the UK proving adequate income.
It's all a bit of a lottery. Honourary Thai consulates are best (if there are any in the region). They are usually small shipping agents who have the visa stamps lawfully. They will get a cut of visa fees so it's in their interests to issue them. Ordinary consulates and embassies are employed by Thai Imm/govenment. They're salaried and so sometimes get p***** off if there are too many applications. They tighten their own rules then.
And Takiab,
Visas can't be extended overseas. Only in Thailand. That's when the strict income/savings requirements come in.

[hogus]

Buksi, if this hypothetical person wouldn't be married with 2 kids, I would strongly recommend to move to Cambodia, Phils or Malaysia.
The visa-requirements are much easier than in Thailand!

Cambodia: US$ 25 for a business-visa (1 month valid, possible to get on the airport), after that month applying for a 1 year-visa (about US$200, no further requirements, no need to make visa-runs abroad)
Phils: 21 days for free on arrival, than extension for about 1 month, after that for about 2months as often as you want (costs of every extension about US$60, no further requirements, no need to make visa-runs abroad)
Malaysia: 3 month-visa for free as often as you want (no further requirements, must cross borderline every 90 days)

The Phils & Malaysia offers even special visa-programs for persons, which aren't 50 years yet and don't want to do visa-runs or extensions.
Of course, these programs are a little bit expensive, but last not least they offer it.
Thailand seems to be light-years backwards in this case!
I don't know about the situation in the mentioned countries for a person, which is married to a Thai-nationality include 2 kids, but it shouldn't be so difficult to contact the Embassies to find it out.

Just a word to this 2x edited 4.29 am statement, which is explaining us that the Thai-administration want married foreigners to have only 1,300 Baht/day, which won't cover "all potential eventualities like rent, bills, food, entertainment, transport, schooling, school trips, PC's for kids development, medical bills, emergency repatriation, insurances, clothing, birthday & Xmas presents, assistance for spouses family members' medical treatment, etc etc."
I really wonder how millions of Thais can survive without this daily 1,300 Baht...having kids, homes, bills, food etc. ...
These requirements for foreigners are simply ridiculous and far away from lived reality in this country!

End of rant...lol

[Super Joe]

SJ, you should really work for immigration, you're sounding like one of them more every day.

Thank you sir, believe I've just been pointing them out, not one wine (sic) has passed my lips, can't see what it will achieve with immigration.

Here is a hypothetical one we'll see if you can answer:
Alien works in Thailand on B visa with WP and paying tax for ten years.
Alien is married with two children.
Work dries up and alien gets '7 day red card', cancellation of visa and wp.
Alien has no income or assets overseas and is well under 50.
Aside from finding another company to provide a WP which is virtually impossible in the current economic climate what are the visa options?

The visa option is simple, think you know it already mate, his home country will issueb him a Non-Immigrant 'o', based on visiting family for 100 quid. It will last him 15 months, then he will need to renew it during a fun-filled family trip to the beautiful Island of Penang.

Observations:
1) Speaking of 10 years, the guy took a fair old risk emigrating in his 20's and starting a family without back-up funds, some of us toiled 10 years longer than we'd have liked.
2) Why did he not take up the kind offer from Thailand of applying for Permanent residency after just 3 consecutive annual extensions. He would not have any of these problems if he did.
3) Why is he angry at Thailand for his unfortunate work situation. US and European bankers should get the anger.
4) 10 years is admirable but doesn't entitle him to anything these days, maybe a gold clock. A golfer who paid for 10 consecutive memberships but can't pay for the next years is out of luck. A faultless driver for 10 years runs someone over while under the influence gets no favours.

Hope my sympathetic words are of some comfort

SJ

[lomuamart]

SJ,
In this hypothetical situation, I'm in total agreement that the married person (with two kids) would almost definitely get a multi-entry Non O visas in the UK, but don't try The Thai Embassy as explained above.
Where I'd disagree with you is that the said person would get another multi-entry from Penang (assuming you man that and not a single entry). Believe me, I tried it twice last year. No way. Single entries only at that time. All my paperwork was in order - marriage certificate, copy wife's ID card and tabien bahn, letter from her requesting the visa and proof of more than enough income from the UK. Single entry only. Penang as an "ordinary consulate" have no vested interest in issuing lots of visas. They get paid anyway. The island used to be an easy touch for multi-entries but so many people were clogging up the system that they only issue the singles to try and make you extend annually in Thailand. There's no limit to how many single entries you can get. Each person has to decide whether it's more cost effective to fly back home for a few days every 15 months and do 90 day border runs for a year, or make the trip to Penang every 90 days.
I doubt there's much difference in price really. I was spending about 15K all in over 5 days to get my visas. Flying back and then border running for a year would be about the same. I doubt 15K for a 90 day visa would involve the family!!!!
All other neighbouring Thai missions are a lottery as well.

[lomuamart]

SJ,
Deleted your duplicate post.

[Super Joe]

SJ,
In this hypothetical situation, I'm in total agreement that the married person (with two kids) would almost definitely get a multi-entry Non O visas in the UK, but don't try The Thai Embassy as explained above.
Where I'd disagree with you is that the said person would get another multi-entry from Penang (assuming you man that and not a single entry). Believe me, I tried it twice last year. No way.

I haven't done one for ages Lomu, so wouldn't know who were giving out singles or multi's. You're the guru for that level of detail.
Know 2 mates got multi's in Vientienne but that was well over a year ago. Would be handy if there were a list put together to assist those going.

Cheers,

SJ

[Super Joe]

SJ,
Deleted your duplicate post.

Thanks mate but I'd already deleted the other one, now they're both gone lol

Don't worry, it werent of much importance anyway.

Cheers

[lomuamart]

Whoops,
Your one at 1.52pm is still there. Thought I was deleting the duplicate of that?
Apologies if I've messed up. It wasn't intentional and our posts were crossing at roughly the same time - I'm not quick at typing.

[buksida]

Observations:
1) Speaking of 10 years, the guy took a fair old risk emigrating in his 20's and starting a family without back-up funds, some of us toiled 10 years longer than we'd have liked.
2) Why did he not take up the kind offer from Thailand of applying for Permanent residency after just 3 consecutive annual extensions. He would not have any of these problems if he did.
3) Why is he angry at Thailand for his unfortunate work situation. US and European bankers should get the anger.
4) 10 years is admirable but doesn't entitle him to anything these days, maybe a gold clock. A golfer who paid for 10 consecutive memberships but can't pay for the next years is out of luck. A faultless driver for 10 years runs someone over while under the influence gets no favours.

Some hypothetical answers to your observations:

1) Most people in their twenties do not make grand plans for the future, situations change whilst abroad and one must adapt to them.

2) The 'kind offer' involves 200,000 baht and still prevents him from working and earning a living in Thailand so it is effectively useless.

3) The anger stems from the fact that in most civilized countries immigrants generally get some form of permanent residency and human rights automatically after living, working, raising families and integrating into the country they have moved to for such a long period of time.

4) Yes, this country can be compared to a golf course, you come, you pay, you play, and you leave.

Hogus, agree, and as I have also pointed out many times neighbouring countries are making things easier while this one continues to tighten up.

[Super Joe]

Ok, I'll give you all them points, even though Malaysia & Phils would also refuse extension to that hypothetical family

Much of Hogus' info is not legit, I'll post what I've read is the visa rules etc from those countries when I get time. A lot of what Hogus has posted is what people out there do, they for example apply for work visas, get a visa company to extend it every 2 months but never work on it. Same same Phils, it is the same abuse of a visa category just as the border runners were doing. It is not legit, Buks I'd never advise you or anyone to relocate your family to a country where overnight your visa status can be cancelled.
Hogus touched on Phils and Malaysia official programs saying the 'were a little expensive' ......... LITTLE!? 65,000 USD for that hypothetical family with two kids. Not show money but left invested in the country for your duration.

And Hogus your comparison between an average Thai families spending and a Farang/Thai family was utterly bizarre.

SJ

[Super Joe]

2) The 'kind offer' involves 200,000 baht and still prevents him from working and earning a living in Thailand so it is effectively useless

Oi ya cheeky git just noticed this one.
Told you 100'000 times on here that it's 100k if married to a Thai, not 200k.
And as for 'useless' it would have solved that hypothetical blokes life, wiped away every single visa/immigration/ proof of 40k overseas income/ 400k show money in bank, no returning to UK for Non-Imm O, no border runs, let him stay here with his family forever blah blah blah
Lazy bugger would still have to earn a living though

SJ PR Rep.

[hogus]

SJ, seems you haven't done your research!
Where it's written that you must leave all your invested money in the country for you duration????

Malaysia:
Upon Approval : Aged Below 50 years old

* Open a fixed deposit account of RM300,000.00.

* After a period of one year, the participant can withdraw up to RM150,000.00 for approved expenses relating to house purchase, education for children in Malaysia and medical purposes.

* Must maintain a minimum balance of RM150,000.00 from second year onwards and throughout stay in Malaysia under this programme.

Approved participants who have purchased and owned property which were bought at RM1 million and above in Malaysia may comply with the basic fixed deposit requirement of RM 150,000. This amount may not be withdrawn until the participant decides to terminate his participation in MM2H programme.


Upon Approval : Aged 50 years and above


* Can either choose to:
- Open a fixed deposit account of RM150,000.00 ; OR
- Show proof of government approved pension funds of RM10,000

* After a period of one year, participant who fulfills the fixed deposit criterion can withdraw up to RM50,000.00 for approved expenses relating to house purchase, education for children in Malaysia and medical purposes.

* Participant must maintain a minimum balance of RM100,000.00 from the second year onwards and throughout his/her stay in Malaysia under this programme.

Approved participants who have purchased and owned property which were bought at RM1 million and above in Malaysia may comply with the basic fixed deposit requirement of RM 100,000. This amount may not be withdrawn until the participant decides to terminate his participation in MM2H programme.

Source: http://www.mm2h.gov.my/conditions.php

Philippines:

Retirement Option and their Required Time Deposit
1. With Pension – 50 years. Old and above – the required time deposit is US$10, 000.00 plus a monthly pension of US$800.00 for a single applicant and US$1,000.00 for couple

2. Without Pension

o 35 to 49 years old – US$50, 000.00 time deposit

o 50 years old and above – US$20, 000.00 time deposit

3. A resident retiree can bring with him, without additional deposit, his spouse and a child who is unmarried and below 21 years old or if the spouse is not joining, two (2) children (provided they are unmarried and under 21 years of age.) Additional children with the same qualifications may also be allowed to join the principal retiree provided there is an additional deposit of US$15,000.00 per child. The said time deposit however, is subject the same and conditions with that of the principal deposit.

Source: http://www.pra.gov.ph/main/srrv_program2/5?page=1

This are just additional options for persons which don't want to make visa-runs and/or applying for extensions.
Thailand even wants a lot more requirements for a simple Non-Immigrant-visa (single entry, 3 months).
If you are married to a citizen of these countries, as you're here in Thailand with a local, things are much easier more.
So, don't tell me anymore how grateful we must be here in Thailand!

As Buksi said already, most countries want to attract foreigners to live in their countries, while Thailand continues to tighten up!

By the way, it's your private business how much kids you want to have, how often you feel the need to support the family of your spouse or how exclusively your lifestyle should be...it has nothing to do with visa-regulations and their requirements!

If Buksi's hypothetical person hasn't enough funds to retire, things are looking a little bit different, of course, as everywhere in the world when you have to work!
Fact is that Thailand has actually (not in the past) very uncomfortable regulations for foreigners and with Thai married foreigners compared to neighbor countries!

End of story

[lomuamart]

You know, this started out as a simple thread about the changes to visa exempt stamps. It's progressed to a discussion about longer term visas and other countries. I'm guilty of going down that path myself.
In some ways, I'm not surprised as I imagine that most members are here on longer term visas anyway.
SJ,
I know we've had disagreements in the past about changes to visa exempt rules. Let me just ask you that if, under the present system, a person makes four consecutive 15 day visas exempt border runs and then flies to Cambodia and returns to Swampy to get another 30 day stamp and then does 4 consecutive 15 day runs - ad infinitum. Are they:
1. Doing anything illegal?
2. Are they abusing the system?
3. Are they embracing the new regulations?
4. Is this within the spirit of the law?

Personally, I'd think it's 3 and positive to 4. The moot point might be the spirit of the law, but Thailand has changed the regulations three times recently and has had ample opportunity to do away with these people. They havn't. And for me that speaks volumes.
Just a thought.