High Blood Pressure

Medical issues, doctors, dentists, opticians and hospitals in Hua Hin and Thailand.
Wanderlust
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Post by Wanderlust »

On the salt issue, I never add salt to my food either before eating or if I cook it, but the problem is if eating out or buying food in the shops. I am already starting to check labels but it is impossible to avoid salt altogether. Equally I have read that there is a conflict of opinion about whether salt is actually a cause of HBP, or whether there are 'salt intolerant' people who are the only ones affected - the science of HBP has not been completely worked out yet. One thing I do know is that I have always, even as a fit teenager in the cold UK, sweated a lot which I believe is one of the major ways the body gets rid of excess salt, so I don't think that is at the root of my problem. I have also read that it doesn't matter if it is table salt or rock salt, the sodium will still be there and get into your body.

The vast majority of internet sites I have come across regarding Apple Cider Vinegar are in favour of it although they differ in how they advocate its benefits, but I have come across a couple which claim it is all a myth. I went with the majority view and bought the HealthyMate version in Golden Place, along with some Organic Honey, which I take 2 tablespoons of the ACV with 2 teaspoons of honey mixed with a cup of warm water three times a day. I couldn't find Cayenne Pepper in Golden Place, but I wasn't really sure what I was looking for - is it a powder and does it come in a sachet, a tin or what? If someone can point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it! :thumb:
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Post by caller »

I have HT, mainly stress related (take a vitamin compound B6 for that) although could also do with shifting some weight and test myself which I find better and agree about not first thing in the morning or after eating and the like. BP varies for everyone throughout the day.

One thing you may want to think about is that some people freak at having their BP tested - I do and it's a recognised problem. Last year I had to have a hernia fixed and when I went for the pre-op, the first test was off the richter scale, sat and waited for 15 minutes and then it was normal, that's par for the course for me. I was pleased when I read the results for the hourly BP tests both before and post-op - especially as I was on pain killers after.

Can't recall if you mentioned whether you had your cholesterol checked as well - you should.
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Post by MrPlum »

Caller

With stress, the adrenals get tired and need support. Ashwagandha is excellent for stress as is Shilajit (Bitumen)... it has all the trace minerals the body needs. If you look for an Indian herb supplier in the UK look for 'Shilajit Rasayan'. Minerals are more important than vitamins. ACV also lowers cholesterol. Agree about the B vitamins. Brewers Yeast is a good source. Try and get the live stuff.

Lying on a sun-kissed beach and getting off the computer is also very important when you are stressed! Bodywork, such as massage, helps to relieve the physical tension.

Also agree about the salt in packaged foods. I stopped eating them when the Cup-A-Soups got so salty they were impossible to eat. I don't buy/eat processed foods so need to add a little salt in my diet.

WL. You can buy packets of ground Cayenne (Chili) in any store or at local markets. We buy whole fresh and dried chillies in the market then grind them. For every web site you find that claims something works, you'll find one that says it's a scam.

Some local herbs are very useful and easy to make yourself. Especially tinctures. When you are sick most people take a few drops twice per day. This IMO is not enough. You would see far quicker results by taking 2 x droppersful every HOUR. It can get expensive if you are buying online but then not as much as open heart surgery. :shock:

I also believe that if one herb is not doing the trick. You can combine several herbs that work synergistically together.

Raw foodies will extol the health-bringing virtues of eating live enzymatic food. 'Eat right for your Blood Type' fans will praise their regime. Another fad is developing around 'Metabolic food-typing'. Macrobiotic diets and vegetarian diets and vegan diets and the Ayurvedic constitutional typing method (which I use) can leave your head spinning. Add in poor food combining. Poor eating habits. Poor quality food and you begin to see why people just give up and eat whatever is put in front of them.
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Post by Winkie »

Cayenne Peepr is dried and powdered, and can be found in the Dried Herbs/Spices Section in Villa.

I beleive that Cayenne Pepper is actually a collective term. There is no specific Cayenne pepper, so fresh chillis, dried, even cooked (to a degree) etc.. are all beneficial. Its the Capsaicin content that's important. So any diet with a moderate quantity of chilli will help to improve blood flow and blood pressure.

I still use Cayenne Pepper (in addition to fresh) as its easy just to shake an amount into the ACV drink. Also, make a tea, using Japanese Green Tea and add some Cayenne to the Tea Pot also.

Cayenne is something that I've only started using recently, but its very interesting to read about the wide ranging successes that many people have had. We trow it on cuts now, and it really does seem to help with the rapid healing process.

Nature has many multi-purpose solutions for many conditions and situations, and Cayenne, ACV and Cocunut Oil are just a few, I'm sure. But they do seem to work well, and are regularly available here in Thailand.

Those looking for even more effective natural remedies to HBP and Diabetes, search for Raw and Living foods, and read the testamonies of people that have had successes. This you'll also struggle to find a website that claims this to be a scam. You will find testamonies of many peole that have totally dumped all prescribed medication, even with very serious conditions.
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Post by hhfarang »

WL,

Here's an online article about it that you may want to read...

http://health.msn.com/mens-health/artic ... 05.11.2.11
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HBP

Post by Lily »

My husband has had high blood pressure for many years.This time last year it soared up to 220 over 122 which is very serious.The Poly clinic gave him a tablet to bring it down quickly and then prescribed him 5mg enaril and 80mg diovan.This bought it down but it was still high.It soared again a few months ago while we happened to be in Bangkok. A visit to Bumrungrad changed the dosage to 20mg enaril and 160mg diovan.His average reading now is 120/80 absolutely perfect ! Hope this is of help to you.
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Post by sargeant »

I dont know what my pills do but they are for high blood pressure and to regulate my heart beat
Aspirin (to thin me blood i think)
Propranolol (the last 3 letters of that one make me larf but i think they are beta blockers )
Anapril 5 (maleate) (ok i got no idea)
Lipitor (they make me angry at 65Bt for one pill they cost more than all the other pills together ) oh another name for it is atorvastatin (cholestoral i think)
anyway they suit me fine now i have the dosage correct

They are coming to take me away har har :shock: :shock: :? :wink:
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Post by norm »

WL.. sorry to hear about your blood pressure problem. But with the right medicine it can be controlled quite well.

I have been on medication for it for over 30 years and once in a while I have to change as it no longer does the job.

Right now I am on Co approvel and Amlopine 5mg. The Dr. also had me on Coversyl. I though three was to many pills to be taking but they do seem to like to have you on lots of medication.

By having my own BP cuff it is easy to monitor. I use Intelli sense by Omron and like it quite well. All you have to do is push a couple of buttons and it takes care of everything, including recording the last 30 or so readings and giving you the date and time it was taken. Very nice if you want to keep a record for the Dr. Try to take it about the same time. Relax take a few deep breaths, think pleasant thoughts and push "start". My BP is always higher when I go to the Dr. But when I first got mine I took it into the Dr. and had him check it against his and it was spot on.

By monitoring every day and reducing my medication by not taking the Coversly every 3rd day and then in a couple of weeks I took it every other day and then a couple more weeks I quit it altogether and have not notice any detrimental changes.

The Co Approvel has a diuretic in it that makes you pee a lot and help reduce the blood pressure. Without it I cannot keep my BP down. On the bad side it does have side effects after taken for a long time. Gout is one side effect and impotence is another. But that typically is only after very extended usage, like many years.

Diet and exercise is the best preventive of high BP but it is hereditary so blame it on your choice of parents. Mine both had it, as well as my brother and sister.

Yours is getting into the danger territory so don't mess around and keep on top of it. Highly recommend a BP cuff if you don't have one. Salt and stress can really increase your BP. Do your damndest not to get into stressful situations, be cool and no reason you can't make 100+. Hope you do!

Norm
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Post by hhfarang »

The Co Approvel has a diuretic in it that makes you pee a lot and help reduce the blood pressure. Without it I cannot keep my BP down. On the bad side it does have side effects after taken for a long time. Gout is one side effect and impotence is another.
That's somewhat distressing information Norm, as I told my physician that I did not want any medication with that possible side effect (impotence) as I have a wife who is 21 years younger and he assured me that this one did not.

I told him that I would rather die from the disease than to have that side effect! Did he lie to me? :shock: :D
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Post by hhfarang »

I just looked it up and among the results of long term testing for side effects for Aprovel/Avapro:

"Endocrine side effects

Endocrinologic side effects have been reported rarely. Sexual dysfunction, alterations in libido, and attacks of gouty arthritis have been reported in less than 1% of patients."

Less than 1% is probably about the same as aspirin or any other medication... so until it happens I guess I won't worry about it.
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Post by nanyang »

Wanderlust,

I'm sure everyone means well with their various anecdotes as to what works for them.

However, I'm most surprised that you were prescribed medication at this stage unless your reading was off the 'Richter Scale'.

Raised blood pressure is initially treated with sensible advice about weight loss, stop smoking, reduce your alcohol intake and eat a sensible diet.
The doctor will, usually, ask you to return in (say) a month for another reading.

You admit to being overweight, leading a sedentary lifestyle and downing a few too many - goal one is obvious.

Changing one's lifestyle, as we get older, becomes increasingly difficult.
When we have, potentialy serious, medical problems staring us in the face we have two choices.
Lastly, let the doctor advise you rather than you trying to heal thyself.
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Post by norm »

hhfarang wrote:I just looked it up and among the results of long term testing for side effects for Aprovel/Avapro:

"Endocrine side effects

Endocrinologic side effects have been reported rarely. Sexual dysfunction, alterations in libido, and attacks of gouty arthritis have been reported in less than 1% of patients."

Less than 1% is probably about the same as aspirin or any other medication... so until it happens I guess I won't worry about it.
Guess I'm part of the unlucky 1%. But I've been on BP med for over 30 years so the time frame may have a influence.

Possible could have been caused by something else, not sure how you would know the cause but my Dr. suggested that as a possibility. My intention was not to discourage medication, quite the contrary. Without medication I have no doubt that I would not be here now.

I don't worry about things like that much, stress is a killer. Besides at 75 it is not unusual for a few parts not to work as well as they use too. Just looking forward to the next 20 or so years.

HH I would not worry about taking the diuretic. In the unlikely event you get gout they have very effective medication for that, haven't noticed any side effects and it is very inexpensive. As far as the sex life goes they have little blue pills that will improve that. The main thing to keep in mind is there is no cure for death, so look after yourself.

Getting old is in some ways a pain in the a$$ but can't say I have ever consistently enjoy life as much as I do now. There are three reasons for that. Having a fantastic wife, having reasonable good health and having adequate money to not have to worry about it.
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Post by hhfarang »

Interesting article on this subject from the Wall Street Journal...

"MARCH 30, 2009, 11:07 P.M. ET

Old Blood-Pressure Treatments Make High-Tech Comebacks

By RON WINSLOW

ORLANDO, Fla. -- More than a half-century ago, doctors treating patients with uncontrolled high blood pressure might resort to crude and invasive methods such as severing nerves or zapping neck arteries with an electrical charge.

Both strategies reduced blood pressure, but the procedures came with such major complications that they were reserved essentially for life-and-death situations. With the development of modern drugs, the treatments fell by the wayside.

Now, two start-up companies are bringing the procedures back -- aided by high-tech gadgetry that today is a mainstay of cardiology treatment. In two small studies featured Monday at the annual scientific meeting of the American College of Cardiology, the strategies achieved substantial, sustained reductions in blood pressure.

If the results for either, or both, of the procedures are borne out in larger, more-rigorous trials, it would amount to a major advance in treating hypertension -- one of the most common disorders in medicine and one of the most frustrating to treat.

About a third of the adult population in the developed world has the condition. In the U.S. alone, that amounts to more than 70 million people. Despite a variety of drugs that include pills such as diuretics, beta blockers and ACE-inhibitors, only about a third are successfully treated. Another third aren't getting any treatment, while the rest fail to get to blood-pressure goals despite taking a fistful of pills every day -- or because they fail to take their medicine.

The final third are at especially high risk of suffering a stroke, heart attack, heart failure or kidney failure, four of health care's most debilitating and costly conditions.

So for researchers and entrepreneurial companies, hypertension is a huge opportunity -- and a big risk.

"Most mechanical solutions to aggressively treat hypertension have not panned out," says Dan Jones, a blood-pressure expert at the University of Mississippi. In both of these cases, even if all goes well, the procedures wouldn't likely be available in the U.S. until about 2012, at the earliest.

One of the approaches, being developed by Ardian Inc., of Palo Alto, Calif., involves a 40-minute procedure in which an electrode-tipped catheter is threaded from the groin into the renal artery. Once in the kidney, the electrode delivers radio-frequency energy into the renal artery wall to kill nerves that play an important role in triggering and sustaining high blood pressure.

One result: The kidney doesn't respond to signals that it should conserve salt and water or send out hormones that cause blood vessels to constrict or the heart to pump harder.

The study was conducted among 50 patients with average blood pressure of 177/101, despite being on an average of nearly five drugs. Readings above 140/90 are considered high blood pressure; optimal levels are 120/80 or lower. The procedure resulted in a decline one year later of 27 millimeters of mercury for the systolic, or top number, and 17 for the diastolic pressure. Generally, a 20-millimeter reduction in systolic blood pressure is associated with a 50% reduction in long-term risk of death related to cardiovascular disease.

"There's no doubt these changes are clinically meaningful," said Henry Krum, a researcher at Monash University, Melbourne, Australia, who led the study and presented the data at the meeting. The study was also published online in the British medical journal the Lancet. There wasn't any evidence that the treatment damaged the artery wall, an important potential risk of the procedure.

Most patients in the study continued on at least some of their blood-pressure medication, but one hope is that the device could someday enable many people to control blood pressure without pills. Ardian's investors include Medtronic Inc.

The other technique is being developed by CVRx Inc., of Minneapolis, which counts Johnson & Johnson among its backers. It involves implanting a device similar to a pacemaker in the chest. Leads from the device are wrapped around the carotid or neck arteries where so-called baroreceptors are located. These receptors play an important role in maintaining blood pressure.

When electrical impulses from the device are sent to the baroreceptors, says Marcos Rothstein, a researcher at Washington University in St. Louis, it "fools the brain" into thinking the body's blood pressure is even higher than it actually is. That triggers a response marshaling a full complement of the body's natural regulatory weapons to dilate blood vessels, reduce the workload on the heart, and restore balance to the kidney.

Among 60 patients with average blood pressures of 183/105 taking five blood-pressure pills, the technique reduced systolic levels by an average of 22 and diastolic by 15 after two years with the device, Dr. Rothstein reported. In addition, he reported that patients on average had improvements in heart function.

Both companies are launching large randomized studies to test their techniques.

Write to Ron Winslow at ron.winslow@wsj.com"
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Post by MrPlum »

Some incredible posts here. At least to me.

Killing nerves in the kidney is a 'major advance'? :shock: So what happens if you adopt a healthier lifestyle and your BP drops to normal. Can it stay there if the nerves that maintain it are dead? Won't they they then need to zap the nerves that drop your BP too low?

1/3rd at major risk of stroke, who ARE taking medication. What they seem to be saying is that taking medication that isn't working, is more dangerous than none at all. Based on a previous post, for the period where you are trying to ascertain the correct drug or combination of drugs and dosage, which could be years, you are actually increasing your risk. Right?

The second method sounds like an expensive blood thinner from Gary Gadget. The implants will no doubt be a nice little earner. Garlic, Cayenne, Gingko, Ginseng also thin blood, as does Sadao (Neem) and a number of other herbs and they cost bugger all. I would like to see a comparison between herbal blood thinners and pharma ones to see if the difference merits the risk and cost of pharmaceuticals. Surely someone has carried out such an obvious study? Yet I can't find anything.

No disrespect to those who are on meds. As some have said, without them you might not be here at all. :thumb:

Just as an aside, if you are taking any herbal preparations and you need surgery at all, you must inform your doctor. Bleeding to death on the operating table is not a good idea.
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Post by hhfarang »

Killing nerves in the kidney is a 'major advance'?
Yeah, I thought that sounded a little scary and unreversable too!

BTW, I wasn't advocating anything in the article, I just happened to find it today and since we were on this subject, thought it was interesting.
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