Global Warming/Climate Change 2

[STEVE G]

Debating climate change is like arguing about whether the Earth is flat
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/04/06/m ... h-is-flat/

“Should we still debate whether the Earth is flat?” Maher demanded. “That’s not how science works. At some point, you reach a consensus, then debate the next issue.”

[MrPlum]

"...At some point, you reach a consensus, then debate the next issue.”

Absolutely agree. There is 100% consensus there is ZERO evidence for catastrophic global warming. Next issue please.

IMHO besides a token effort from the die-hards, the Great Climate Change Con (iteration no:4) is over. The communists-turned-environmentalists, flogging this dead horse, are now placing their bets on 'Agenda 21' and 'sustainability'.

There SHOULD be 100% consensus that nothing about our climate today is unprecedented.

There SHOULD be 100% consensus that to blame carbon, so you can tax and criminalize it, is absurd. (Wonder how the Canutes are going to cool the oceans?)

There SHOULD 100% consensus that 'scientists' or their political paymasters who resort to distortion and lie, should be jailed.

Prof. Stephen Schneider - 1989
“… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have …”

Thanks for that explanation of the 'scientific method', Prof.

103 things attributed to 'global warming'... (and you wonder why their is skepticism?)

'Late for a party? Miss a meeting? Forget to pay your rent? Blame climate change; everyone else is doing it. From an increase in severe acne to all societal collapses since the beginning of time, just about everything gone wrong in the world today can be attributed to climate change.'

1. The deaths of Aspen trees in the West
2. Incredible shrinking sheep
3. Caribbean coral deaths
4. Eskimo’s forced to leave their village
5. Disappearing lake in Chile
6. Early heat wave in Vietnam
7. Malaria and water-borne diseases in Africa
8. Invasion of jellyfish in the Mediterranean
9. Break in the Arctic Ice Shelf
10. Monsoons in India
11. Birds laying their eggs early
12. 160,000 deaths a year
13. 315,000 deaths a year
14. 300,000 deaths a year
15. Decline in snowpack in the West
16. Deaths of walruses in Alaska
17. Hunger in Nepal
18. The appearance of oxygen-starved dead zones in the oceans
19. Surge in fatal shark attacks
20. Increasing number of typhoid cases in the Philippines
21. Fashion victim: the death of the winter wardrobe
22. Boy Scout tornado deaths
23. Rise in asthma and hayfever
24. Duller fall foliage in 2007
25. Floods in Jakarta
26. Radical ecological shift in the North Sea
27. Snowfall in Baghdad
28. Western tree deaths
29. Diminishing desert resources
30. Pine beetles
31. Swedish beetles
32. Severe acne
33. Global conflict
34. Crash of Air France 447
35. Black Hawk Down incident
36. Amphibians breeding earlier
37. Flesh-eating disease
38. Global cooling
39. Bird strikes on US Airways 1549
40. Beer tastes different
41. Cougar attacks in Alberta
42. Suicide of farmers in Australia
43. Squirrels reproduce earlier
44. Monkeys moving to Great Rift Valley in Kenya
45. Confusion of migrating birds
46. Bigger tuna fish
47. Water shortages in Las Vegas
48. Worldwide hunger
49. Longer days
50. Earth spinning faster
51. Gender balance of crocodiles
52. Skin cancer deaths in UK
53. Increase in kidney stones in India
54. Penguin chicks frozen by global warming
55. Deaths of Minnesota moose
56. Increased threat of HIV/AIDS in developing countries
57. Increase of wasps in Alaska
58. Killer stingrays off British coasts
59. All societal collapses since the beginning of time
60. Bigger spiders
61. Increase in size of giant squid
62. Increase of orchids in UK
63. Collapse of gingerbread houses in Sweden
64. Cow infertility
65. Conflict in Darfur
66. Bluetongue outbreak in UK cows
67. Worldwide wars
68. Insomnia of children worried about global warming
69. Anxiety problems for people worried about climate change
70. Migration of cockroaches
71. Taller mountains due to melting glaciers
72. Drowning of four polar bears
73. UFO sightings in the UK
74. Hurricane Katrina
75. Greener mountains in Sweden
76. Decreased maple in maple trees
77. Cold wave in India
78. Worse traffic in LA because immigrants moving north
79. Increase in heart attacks and strokes
80. Rise in insurance premiums
81. Invasion of European species of earthworm in UK
82. Cold spells in Australia
83. Increase in crime
84. Boiling oceans
85. Grizzly deaths
86. Dengue fever
87. Lack of monsoons
88. Caterpillars devouring 45 towns in Liberia
89. Acid rain recovery
90. Global wheat shortage; food price hikes
91. Extinction of 13 species in Bangladesh
92. Changes in swan migration patterns in Siberia
93. The early arrival of Turkey’s endangered caretta carettas
94. Radical North Sea shift
95. Heroin addiction
96. Plant species climbing up mountains
97. Deadly fires in Australia
98. Droughts in Australia
99. The demise of California’s agriculture by the end of the century
100. Tsunami in South East Asia
101. A parboiled planet (Prof. Krugman, cited on huffingtonpost.com)
102 Causes women to turn to prostitution
103 Climate change fears may worsen depression

[STEVE G]

There is 100% consensus there is ZERO evidence for catastrophic global warming.

And the North Pole melting? It shouldn't be.

[charlesh]

Yet another interesting approach. I am surprised given the principle of entropy (Carnot cycle) that a colder body (read the earths oceans) can in fact push back energy into a warmer body (read external surroundings and atmosphere).

OSLO (Reuters) - Climate change could get worse quickly if huge amounts of extra heat absorbed by the oceans are released back into the air, scientists said after unveiling new research showing that oceans have helped mitigate the effects of warming since 2000.
Heat-trapping gases are being emitted into the atmosphere faster than ever, and the 10 hottest years since records began have all taken place since 1998. But the rate at which the earth's surface is heating up has slowed somewhat since 2000, causing scientists to search for an explanation for the pause.
Experts in France and Spain said on Sunday that the oceans took up more warmth from the air around 2000. That would help explain the slowdown in surface warming but would also suggest that the pause may be only temporary and brief.

[sargeant]

There is 100% consensus there is ZERO evidence for catastrophic global warming

In house holds that have not researched the basic science maybe

but not in my house

[sargeant]

12. 160,000 deaths a year
13. 315,000 deaths a year
14. 300,000 deaths a year

three separate entries????? any non propagandist/spin merchant would say

up to 315,000 and have a single entry

also any normal person would list them numerically ie

12-160,000
13- 300,000
14- 315,000

[Bristolian]

12. 160,000 deaths a year
13. 315,000 deaths a year
14. 300,000 deaths a year

three separate entries????? any non propagandist/spin merchant would say

up to 315,000 and have a single entry

also any normal person would list them numerically ie

12-160,000
13- 300,000
14- 315,000

A list of 100 actually just the start of the insanity of such lists, which only prove that the original author of the list was able to conduct Google searches. Dr. John Brignell, a British engineering professor, actually put together a website (http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm) to document as many links to stories claiming that global warming caused them that he could find, and he's got around 600 or so. Many of them are directly opposite to each other, such as Antarctic ice shrinks...and Antarctic ice grows. It's a great resource for illustrating how insane this whole concept of generating such lists really is. Great for propaganda but little else

The list of the 100 can be found here
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/11/17/glo ... l-warming/

I have no inclination to check each and every one of the claims but as for the claims for
1. 160, 000 Deaths
2. 300,000 Deaths
3. 315,000 Deaths

The timescale involved and different sources make the numbers irrelevant in any comparison

1. MOSCOW, Russia, October 1, 2003 (ENS) - Global warming is already responsible for about 160,000 deaths each year from disease and starvation, a British professor of public health told the World Climate Change Conference now underway in Moscow.

2.Climate change causes 300,000 deaths a year
(Agencies)
Updated: 2009-05-29 21:09
LONDON -- A think-tank led by former UN Secretary General Kofi Annan says that around 300,000 people die each year from disasters related to climate change.

3. The 3rd link to Reuters is now closed due to the age of the article

[MrPlum]

There is 100% consensus there is ZERO evidence for catastrophic global warming.

And the North Pole melting? It shouldn't be.

Yes. The carbon tax commies have been cock-a-hoop at this but NASA lets a little wind out of their sails... http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/videogal ... =152489941

Since satellite measurements are only 30 years old and previous statistics were estimated, how can you make a judgment? You could look at the increase in Antarctic ice and make a case for cooling.

The key word of course, is 'catastrophic'. Any islands and atolls submerged? How about coastlines, worldwide, receding? Is this melt unprecedented? Has Al Gore sold his beach house? Is his Zinc mine flooding?

[MrPlum]

It's a great resource for illustrating how insane this whole concept of generating such lists really is. Great for propaganda but little else

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. The point of the lists is to highlight the propaganda we are being subjected to. That has to have some value, surely?

[Bristolian]

It's a great resource for illustrating how insane this whole concept of generating such lists really is. Great for propaganda but little else

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. The point of the lists is to highlight the propaganda we are being subjected to. That has to have some value, surely?

My apologies for any confusion. I was referring to the propaganda used to discredit the fact that we are in a period if climate change. The list of 100 things attributed to climate change was not researched or validated.

[STEVE G]

I am surprised given the principle of entropy (Carnot cycle) that a colder body (read the earths oceans) can in fact push back energy into a warmer body (read external surroundings and atmosphere).

It's been known that the gulf stream warms parts of Europe since about the 16th century.

[sargeant]

There SHOULD 100% consensus that 'scientists' or their political paymasters who resort to distortion and lie, should be jailed.

doe that jail time also apply to forum posters that quote who resort to distortion and lie by cutting and posting the lies

102 Causes women to turn to prostitution

Thats a cracker its the way he tells them

[MrPlum]

There is 100% consensus there is ZERO evidence for catastrophic global warming

In house holds that have not researched the basic science maybe

but not in my house

You've clearly been inhaling too much greenhouse gas. In households that aren't on meds and can remember longer than a week, they recall a certain member bragging loudly he did no research and was forced, kicking and screaming, into doing so, on this topic.

I won't tell you how to conduct the research, since households that have researched the basic science would know but if you can find ANY evidence for 'catastrophic' warming, then post it to the forum. That means a credible peer-reviewed paper. Not a dodgy model that gives you the same answer no matter what data you feed it.

[sargeant]

was forced, kicking and screaming, into doing so, on this topic.

True very True
however having done so at your behest you then bragged that i was number one on your ignore list

so i presume you did not read the full report i made and my findings and where I added that the hardest part of the research was finding websites that were impartial that is a word you probably will have to look up somewhere

hence your post

It pays to remember that skeptics like Monkton have accepted there has been warming and even conceded that man has been responsible for some of it.]


So it is happening then ??????

as you posted it may i suggest you pay to remember

I have NEVER NEVER posted catastrophic warming at any time
as you quite patently ignored me after I HAD THE GOOD GRACE TO ACCEPT YOUR POINT and do the research again may I add at your insistance
To have the audacity to ask for a credible peer-reviewed paper when you did not bother to read what i posted after my research shows breathtaking arrogance

To ask for and i quote you CREDIBLE after the 103 loads of old rubbish you posted it is obvious your arguments are just plain old INCREDIBLE

doe that jail time also apply to forum posters that quote who resort to distortion and lie by cutting and posting the lies

to difficult for you to answer i presume

[MrPlum]

So when challenged to demonstrate your knowledge of 'simple science', with what should be a straightforward search, you pointedly avoid doing so.

Because I have great respect for steveg and others, I won't ruin this topic with further exchanges with you. Please try to exercise some self-control and refrain from any more contrived baiting.