Well, I don't know what you are being allowed to see in LOS, but the rest of us can view army snipers openly firing on protesters/civilians, whoever they want. That accounts for the sad flag waving soul I posted about above, where you tube have removed the video and the poor lady on the bike that has been shown around the world.
I hope Abhisit and the rest of the scum get their just deserts.
Political un-rest and rally
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Talk is cheap
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Re: Political un-rest and rally
caller, it's not Aphisit who is behind this. It's someone whose name begins with T. Also the reds who are left there now are only fighting for disorder. It's like the commies in Russia in the late 1910's or the nazies in Germany in the early 30's. The reds were given what they wanted but the hardliners didn't want peace......
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Re: Political un-rest and rally
These lyrics come to my mind now:
King Crimson Epitaph Lyrics
Send "Epitaph" Ringtone to your Cell Translation in progress. Please wait...
The wall on which the prophets wrote
Is cracking at the seams.
Upon the instruments of death
The sunlight brightly gleams.
When every man is torn apart
With nightmares and with dreams,
Will no one lay the laurel wreath
When silence drowns the screams.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
As I crawl a cracked and broken path
If we make it we can all sit back
And laugh.
But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying,
Yes I fear tomorrow I'll be crying.
Between the iron gates of fate,
The seeds of time were sown,
And watered by the deeds of those
Who know and who are known;
Knowledge is a deadly friend
When no one sets the rules.
The fate of all mankind I see
Is in the hands of fools.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
As I crawl a cracked and broken path
If we make it we can all sit back
And laugh.
But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying,
Yes I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
King Crimson Epitaph Lyrics
Send "Epitaph" Ringtone to your Cell Translation in progress. Please wait...
The wall on which the prophets wrote
Is cracking at the seams.
Upon the instruments of death
The sunlight brightly gleams.
When every man is torn apart
With nightmares and with dreams,
Will no one lay the laurel wreath
When silence drowns the screams.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
As I crawl a cracked and broken path
If we make it we can all sit back
And laugh.
But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying,
Yes I fear tomorrow I'll be crying.
Between the iron gates of fate,
The seeds of time were sown,
And watered by the deeds of those
Who know and who are known;
Knowledge is a deadly friend
When no one sets the rules.
The fate of all mankind I see
Is in the hands of fools.
Confusion will be my epitaph.
As I crawl a cracked and broken path
If we make it we can all sit back
And laugh.
But I fear tomorrow I'll be crying,
Yes I fear tomorrow I'll be crying
Back in Bamboo Grove
http://bamboogrovestories.blogspot.com/
http://bamboogrovestories.blogspot.com/
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Well BG, we will all form our own views on this. Whatever led up to the last 2/3 days cannot excuse the random murders committed on behalf of the establishment. We are reaching the end game of the current protest and foolhardy it may have been, but it won't be the last.
The lyrics above are excellent and very relevant. But from a completely different source, these strike a chord - for all those who lost their life:
"Even if no one would miss me, even if I left no blank space in anyones life, even if no one noticed, I couldn't leave willingly. Loss was not a skill, not a measure of a life. And yet I still felt I had something to lose." (Haruki Murakami)
The lyrics above are excellent and very relevant. But from a completely different source, these strike a chord - for all those who lost their life:
"Even if no one would miss me, even if I left no blank space in anyones life, even if no one noticed, I couldn't leave willingly. Loss was not a skill, not a measure of a life. And yet I still felt I had something to lose." (Haruki Murakami)
Talk is cheap
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Here we go. Everyone please read this at least three (3) times!. Pete 
Opinion » Opinion
Put an end to this rebellion
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... -rebellion
* Published: 16/05/2010 at 12:00 AM
* Newspaper section: News Bangkok Post
I'm not in a popularity contest. I'm not a two-faced diplomat playing it safe and trying to please everyone. So let me say it loud and clear: It's a rebellion, so put an end to it _ with swiftness, severity and certainty.
The military coup in 2006 wrongly overthrew the then democratically elected prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. That was no democracy.
The coup council handed the power back to the people in 2007. The People Power Party (PPP) won the following election. That was democracy.
The PPP was banned by the Constitution Court for electoral irregularities and the parliament _ the democratically elected representatives of Thailand _ voted the Democrats into power. That was democracy.
The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) argue against the Democrat-led coalition government's legitimacy and protest for the government to step down and call a general election.
That was democracy.
And the UDD had won.
The goals of the UDD from the very start: They wanted a House dissolution. They will have one in September. They wanted a general election. They will have one on Nov 14. All within seven months and PM Abhisit Vejjajiva's term actually ends in January 2012, a year and a half from now.
They should be dancing in the streets, celebrating victory. Then we can all go to the voting booth in November. Peace and democracy. But no.
The truth has revealed itself. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship is simply using democracy as a front in the interests of dictatorship.
Refusing the peaceful compromise, forsaking the democratic process, continuing to harm the country for the interests of one man, Thaksin Shinawatra, fighting against security forces of the rightful democratic government of Thailand _ that's an uprising, it's a rebellion.
It's criminal. That is not democracy.
If you disagree with me and think the UDD is in the right, then let me simplify it: The next time you're pulled over by the law in a traffic stop, you should just burn tyres, shoot slingshots at the cop and call him a dictator.
Anyone with an arrest warrant? No need to surrender. Barricade and fortify your home, fire slingshots and fire-crackers and call the law tyrannical.
Buy a lifetime membership to the Association of Anarchists. You don't belong in a civilisation.
The UDD leaders agreed to the prime minister's terms. But instead, Thaksin Shinawatra ordered Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol to step on the brake. Because in his mind, he's screaming: ''What about me!'' ''What do I get out of this entire peace and democracy shenanigans!''
Here's Thaksin's dilemma. Peace and the democratic process don't guarantee his return to power. Someone in Montenegro is kicking and screaming on the floor: ''Me! Me! Me! What about me!''
Accepting the compromise is a loss of face and may even make PM Abhisit look good in the eyes of the people, for biting the bullet and extending his hand. Thaksin Shinawatra can no longer rely on the voting booths. He can no longer rely on the democratic process.
The UDD has used democracy as a tool _ manipulated and exploited it to return Thaksin to power. Now that they are no longer confident that the democratic process will serve their interests, the UDD has transformed itself from a democratic movement into an uprising, a rebellion, a criminal organisation.
It's worth repeating: They wanted a House dissolution. They have one in September. They wanted a general election. They have one on Nov 14. That's democracy. Instead, they flushed democracy down the toilet.
So there's no negotiation other than the complete and total capitulation by the government to the UDD's every will and every whim. It's a total victory that will embarrass the government in the eyes of the Kingdom and of the world and may possibly bury the Democrat party. That's the game.
To Thaksin and the UDD, returning Thaksin to power is worth the 50-odd lives already lost. And that figure is bound to rise. More than 1,000 have been injured and that figure will rise. The billions of baht in economic damage. And that figure will rise.
It's an uprising. It's a rebellion. It's criminal.
The UDD is screaming: ''Now! Now! Now! Prime Minister resign now!'' Thaksin Shinawatra is crying: ''Me! Me! Me! I want my power back!'' That's not democracy. That's a child that needs to be put across the lap for a good spanking.
Let me repeat it again: They wanted democracy. They had democracy. We can all go to the voting booth on Nov 14. But they flushed democracy down the toilet and chose instead, a rebellion.
And when there's a rebellion, the government must put down the rebellion. Otherwise, we have anarchy. The law must be swift, severe and certain _ any student of criminology can tell you that.
I've watched television and read newspapers all this weekend. Most so-called intellectuals, academics and media talk about reconciliation. Well, that's easy and safe _ using a thousand flowery words without saying anything worthwhile.
We reap what we sow. Again, I'm not in a popularity contest. I'm not a two-faced diplomat playing it safe and trying to please everyone. So let me say it loud and clear _ it's a rebellion. To preserve civilisation, the government must put down the rebellion _ swift, severe and certain.
UDD members have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible. But they've died in a rebellion against the rightful, democratic government of Thailand.
The security forces that have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible.
Journalists and other innocent bystanders have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible.
It didn't have to come to this. It shouldn't have come to this. But here we are on the brink of anarchy because of the pride, greed and vengefulness of one man, and of the indecisiveness, uncertainty and lack of leadership of another.
Let me repeat: We reap what we sow. It's a rebellion. Put an end to it, swift, severe and certain. Or step down and let the rebels take over. The longer this crisis drags on, the closer we are and the deeper we will be in a state of anarchy.
voranaiv@bangkokpost.co.th
Opinion » Opinion
Put an end to this rebellion
http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... -rebellion
* Published: 16/05/2010 at 12:00 AM
* Newspaper section: News Bangkok Post
I'm not in a popularity contest. I'm not a two-faced diplomat playing it safe and trying to please everyone. So let me say it loud and clear: It's a rebellion, so put an end to it _ with swiftness, severity and certainty.
The military coup in 2006 wrongly overthrew the then democratically elected prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra. That was no democracy.
The coup council handed the power back to the people in 2007. The People Power Party (PPP) won the following election. That was democracy.
The PPP was banned by the Constitution Court for electoral irregularities and the parliament _ the democratically elected representatives of Thailand _ voted the Democrats into power. That was democracy.
The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) argue against the Democrat-led coalition government's legitimacy and protest for the government to step down and call a general election.
That was democracy.
And the UDD had won.
The goals of the UDD from the very start: They wanted a House dissolution. They will have one in September. They wanted a general election. They will have one on Nov 14. All within seven months and PM Abhisit Vejjajiva's term actually ends in January 2012, a year and a half from now.
They should be dancing in the streets, celebrating victory. Then we can all go to the voting booth in November. Peace and democracy. But no.
The truth has revealed itself. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship is simply using democracy as a front in the interests of dictatorship.
Refusing the peaceful compromise, forsaking the democratic process, continuing to harm the country for the interests of one man, Thaksin Shinawatra, fighting against security forces of the rightful democratic government of Thailand _ that's an uprising, it's a rebellion.
It's criminal. That is not democracy.
If you disagree with me and think the UDD is in the right, then let me simplify it: The next time you're pulled over by the law in a traffic stop, you should just burn tyres, shoot slingshots at the cop and call him a dictator.
Anyone with an arrest warrant? No need to surrender. Barricade and fortify your home, fire slingshots and fire-crackers and call the law tyrannical.
Buy a lifetime membership to the Association of Anarchists. You don't belong in a civilisation.
The UDD leaders agreed to the prime minister's terms. But instead, Thaksin Shinawatra ordered Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol to step on the brake. Because in his mind, he's screaming: ''What about me!'' ''What do I get out of this entire peace and democracy shenanigans!''
Here's Thaksin's dilemma. Peace and the democratic process don't guarantee his return to power. Someone in Montenegro is kicking and screaming on the floor: ''Me! Me! Me! What about me!''
Accepting the compromise is a loss of face and may even make PM Abhisit look good in the eyes of the people, for biting the bullet and extending his hand. Thaksin Shinawatra can no longer rely on the voting booths. He can no longer rely on the democratic process.
The UDD has used democracy as a tool _ manipulated and exploited it to return Thaksin to power. Now that they are no longer confident that the democratic process will serve their interests, the UDD has transformed itself from a democratic movement into an uprising, a rebellion, a criminal organisation.
It's worth repeating: They wanted a House dissolution. They have one in September. They wanted a general election. They have one on Nov 14. That's democracy. Instead, they flushed democracy down the toilet.
So there's no negotiation other than the complete and total capitulation by the government to the UDD's every will and every whim. It's a total victory that will embarrass the government in the eyes of the Kingdom and of the world and may possibly bury the Democrat party. That's the game.
To Thaksin and the UDD, returning Thaksin to power is worth the 50-odd lives already lost. And that figure is bound to rise. More than 1,000 have been injured and that figure will rise. The billions of baht in economic damage. And that figure will rise.
It's an uprising. It's a rebellion. It's criminal.
The UDD is screaming: ''Now! Now! Now! Prime Minister resign now!'' Thaksin Shinawatra is crying: ''Me! Me! Me! I want my power back!'' That's not democracy. That's a child that needs to be put across the lap for a good spanking.
Let me repeat it again: They wanted democracy. They had democracy. We can all go to the voting booth on Nov 14. But they flushed democracy down the toilet and chose instead, a rebellion.
And when there's a rebellion, the government must put down the rebellion. Otherwise, we have anarchy. The law must be swift, severe and certain _ any student of criminology can tell you that.
I've watched television and read newspapers all this weekend. Most so-called intellectuals, academics and media talk about reconciliation. Well, that's easy and safe _ using a thousand flowery words without saying anything worthwhile.
We reap what we sow. Again, I'm not in a popularity contest. I'm not a two-faced diplomat playing it safe and trying to please everyone. So let me say it loud and clear _ it's a rebellion. To preserve civilisation, the government must put down the rebellion _ swift, severe and certain.
UDD members have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible. But they've died in a rebellion against the rightful, democratic government of Thailand.
The security forces that have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible.
Journalists and other innocent bystanders have lost their lives. This is unfortunate. It should never have happened. They should all be in our prayers and their families should be assisted in any way possible.
It didn't have to come to this. It shouldn't have come to this. But here we are on the brink of anarchy because of the pride, greed and vengefulness of one man, and of the indecisiveness, uncertainty and lack of leadership of another.
Let me repeat: We reap what we sow. It's a rebellion. Put an end to it, swift, severe and certain. Or step down and let the rebels take over. The longer this crisis drags on, the closer we are and the deeper we will be in a state of anarchy.
voranaiv@bangkokpost.co.th
Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. Source
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
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Re: Political un-rest and rally
I do agree with you, caller, there is no excuse for murders. But then again there is no excuse for, well what would be the word, unlawfullness? Can you tell me a country, which would have accepted this kind of situation, where demonstrators are against a governement and insist that only their point of view must be accepted before the peace will be restored. The Thai governement approved to hold new elections but then the reds wanted more....or am I wrong with this one?Well BG, we will all form our own views on this. Whatever led up to the last 2/3 days cannot excuse the random murders committed on behalf of the establishment.
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Re: Political un-rest and rally
How swift and severe; beyond international law perhaps?Put an end to it, swift, severe and certain. Or step down and let the rebels take over.
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Most countries agree that security forces can defend themselves when being attacked. As another poster pointed out, can you name even one country that would put up with protesters hurling petrol bombs at the police and the army. If I was in uniform and some bugger lobbed one at me, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot. Petrol bombs are just as deadly as live rounds, only the type of death is worse. If you've ever witnessed, in person, what it looks like when someone has been torched, I'm sure you'd be the first to agree that the security forces have the right to defend themselves.STEVE G wrote:How swift and severe; beyond international law perhaps?Put an end to it, swift, severe and certain. Or step down and let the rebels take over.
Also, since when has Thailand ever given a hoot about international law? After all, Mr T has never had to answer to the mass killings during his war on drugs. China doesn't give a damn either, and neither do........the list goes on and on. International law seems to refer only to the US and a few European countries nowadays.
I know the current government in my country don't seem to be too concerned either. Just the other day the chief of police openly declared his view regarding armed criminals. His exact words were, "shoot the bastards".
I'm not saying I support his point of view, but obviously the world doesn't object too much because they've made no objection. Let's just say, if I was back home and I was threatening to throw a petrol bomb at a policeman, I would most definitely be shot, and no, it wouldn't be in the leg.
I just hope that if the yellows come out to play again in the future, they will be dealt with in the same way. Whichever government is in power needs to make it clear that you cannot be allowed to bring the country to a standstill simply because Joe got one sweet more than Bob. I'm trying to be fair here, but could the reds not wait an extra month or two for elections? Is it really so important to have them this very instant. If they are so sure of victory, why the rush? They could instead use the extra time to gather more support.
Anyway, each to their own
Don't try to impress me with your manner of dress cos a monkey himself is a monkey no less - cold fact
Re: Political un-rest and rally
A chilling report from Nick Nostitz, who has covered the protests for some time. He is a red sympathizer, but this is simply a story of what happened to him yesterday.
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandal ... #more-9486
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandal ... #more-9486
"We're all living proof nothing lasts" - Jay Farrar
Re: Political un-rest and rally
prcscct wrote:The truth has revealed itself. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship is simply using democracy as a front in the interests of dictatorship.
Refusing the peaceful compromise, forsaking the democratic process, continuing to harm the country for the interests of one man, Thaksin Shinawatra
SJ
Re: Political un-rest and rally
BG the answer to that question is the United Kingdom hence Jerry Adams and Martin Mc Guiness are members/ministers in the Northern ireland parliament and sein faen sp? have 5 mps entitled to sit in the govt of the UKCan you tell me a country, which would have accepted this kind of situation, where demonstrators are against a governement and insist that only their point of view must be accepted before the peace will be restored.
And just throwing a petrol bomb in NI would not have got you shot automatically there were very very strict rules of engagement
saying that what is happening in BKK has to be laid firmly at the feet of the UDD leadership they had won and then threw it away with stupidity and this bloodshed is totally down to them and could have been avoided
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
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BelgianBoy
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Re: Political un-rest and rally
LOL seems you dont know Nick at all.HHADFan wrote:A chilling report from Nick Nostitz, who has covered the protests for some time. He is a red sympathizer, but this is simply a story of what happened to him yesterday.
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandal ... #more-9486
He definitely does not support the reds.
BB
Re: Political un-rest and rally
That's fine - it makes the story even more believable. I had read something about him a few months ago that made me think he sympathized with the reds, I think it was in reference to his recent book.BelgianBoy wrote:LOL seems you dont know Nick at all.HHADFan wrote:A chilling report from Nick Nostitz, who has covered the protests for some time. He is a red sympathizer, but this is simply a story of what happened to him yesterday.
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandal ... #more-9486
He definitely does not support the reds.
BB
"We're all living proof nothing lasts" - Jay Farrar
Re: Political un-rest and rally
Sorry to reply twice. It's too late to edit my earlier post.BelgianBoy wrote:LOL seems you dont know Nick at all.HHADFan wrote:A chilling report from Nick Nostitz, who has covered the protests for some time. He is a red sympathizer, but this is simply a story of what happened to him yesterday.
http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandal ... #more-9486
He definitely does not support the reds.
BB
This is why I think he is sympathetic to the reds from his speech to the FCCT http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandal ... -the-fcct/
"I would like to say something about the many accusations going around of me being biased. I do not feel that I am biased. I work the story on the ground, and go to both camps. Of course I have sympathies, in this climate anybody who works this story closely and says that he hasn’t sympathies would be a liar. But I do not let my sympathies interfere in factual and fair reporting. I have never whitewashed anything I have seen.
My sympathies are, and have always been with poor people, with people who do not have a voice in the mainstream, when they demand a better life for themselves, and important ideals such as equal opportunities. And here it happens that most of these underprivileged sectors are with the red shirts.
I do not accept the reasoning that these people are too uneducated to make a choice for themselves. This is a highly patronizing and elitist view. Much sophistry and polemics are used to explain THIS POSITION, WHICH FOR ME IS UTENABLE, COUNTER TO the humanistic ideals I try to follow.
My wife of 15 years does come from such an underprivileged sector of Thai society, and she has a lot of common sense, which often is more important than education. I believe that I have learned at least as much from her as she has from me.
The government, Thaksin, or leaderships of protest groups do not need the sympathy of people like me, they have many other avenues to express their views to the public.
It is irrelevant if I like or dislike Thaksin, in this context. What matters is that his supporters have their valid reasons to have elected his government. Even if I may disagree, I have to respect their choice.
The point here is, that the ones who hold those elitist views have difficulties to relate to the experience of life in Thailand of these social classes, and to their struggles in everyday life.
But I also want to point out here, that I have also sympathies with many ordinary yellow shirts. I am convinced that in their way they also want to create a better Thailand. Many of their complaints are absolutely justified. Nobody in his right mind could possibly deny that they do not address very valid issues."
"We're all living proof nothing lasts" - Jay Farrar