Global Warming/Climate Change 2

[STEVE G]

University survey links Americans’ growing belief in global warming with higher temps outside
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html

[redzonerocker]

^
So the belief that Americans are beginning to believe in global warming is based on a poll of 887 people out of 313 million

I'm sure they weren't cherry picked either

[STEVE G]

Presumably the North Pole melting is something less easily dismissed as political sleight of hand:


Arctic's old ice vanishing rapidly, NASA study finds
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-573 ... udy-finds/

[redzonerocker]

Yep, like the ice sheets that are melting all over Greenland
Then again, wasn't Greenland farmed by the Vikings way back, before the mini ice age forced them to leave?
Climate change isn't anything new & it shouldn't be used as an excuse for extra taxation
It's been around for a long, long time & will continue to change long after we've departed

[STEVE G]

Oceans acidifying at 'unparalleled' rate
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/enviro ... -rate.html

"Oceans currently absorb about a quarter of all CO2 emissions, and as levels of the gas in the atmosphere increase so does the rate at which it dissolves in seawater, making the water more acidic.

Researchers studying 300 million years' worth of data on global warming and acidifying oceans found the current rate of acidification is even greater than four other major periods of climate change in the Earth's history.

These included the impact of the asteroid which wiped out the dinosaurs, and the Permian mass-extinction 252 million years ago, when 95 per cent of life on Earth was destroyed. "

[STEVE G]

There's some hope on the horizon:

Solar Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels A Growing Reality
http://www.energymatters.com.au/index.p ... le_id=3085

[sandman67]

Ice age study delivers blow to global-warming skeptics

A new study finds that rising levels of carbon dioxide drove rising temperatures at the end of the last ice age. The findings contrast with previous studies, which skeptics of human-triggered global warming said showed that CO2 levels weren't an important factor.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/20 ... g-skeptics

all together now.... TIS BUT A SCRATCH!!!!!

[STEVE G]

This is interesting, it's the global temperature of the last few decades overlaid on Hansens original 1981 predictions.
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... nt-page-1/

[sandman67]

Bad week for the Denialists in da house.....see another one of the quack quack canards about climate change is that to address it would cost an arm and a leg and make the states that did it uncompetetive economically

All together now.... OH REALLY?

Stopping Climate Change Is Much Cheaper Than You Think - A UK report confirms the cost of preventing climate change would cost the average citizen just pennies a day.

http://motherjones.com/environment/2012 ... id-kennedy

You need to go to the page as there are tables as well as the blurb summary and commentary.

Two fat canards down in the same week.

[STEVE G]

Climate Contrarian Case Wilts as More Studies Confirm Warming Trends
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/in ... 242258.htm

[sandman67]

Steve

bear in mind mate that the home of climate change denialism, The USA, is also the home of evolution denialsm. Despite that fact that since Darwin publshed his work 150 years ago and counting science has proven the theory in a mountain of dfferent ways, and found NO other viable explaination, the overwhelming majority of the US public (around 60%+ according to one poll last year by Pew) do not believe in evoluton in any form - not even the deist version that the Roman Catholic Church now has as official doctrine. Despte the fact that in 2004 genetic research finally establshed that we humans and modern apes such as Chimpanzees share a common hominid ancestor beyond any doubt, the US public still refuse to accept that fact.

So....if the US public, and some in European states including our own green and pleasant, can continue to deny the relatively simple theory of evolution for 150 years despite an ever increasing mountain of evidence, what hope do you think we have of getting those people to accept the much more complex theory of anthropomorphic climate change as fact?

How do you expect to ever reason with a side that trots out, as has been done in this thread and its previous incarnation, the stupid non argument :"Why should we do anything about our emissions when China and India are polluting like crazy and doing nothng about theirs?".

Like I said mate....these are Black Knights we are dealing with.

[MrPlum]

Amazing. We are living with an unabashed warmongering Kleptocracy, delivering fearmongering scares one after another, so they can bilk the public and the faithful still have faith.

Like the 'War on Terror', the 'War on Cancer', the 'War on Drugs', the 'War on Poverty' and the 'War on whatever else we can frighten the public with', we can now add the 'War to make the seas recede'.

'Wars' are not meant to be won. Only fought. They are designed to be open-ended, so they can be milked indefinitely.

When they changed 'Global Warming' to 'Climate Change' it was so they could tax and control us when it's either chucking it down or the tarmac is melting.

Making the science fit the policy is rattling good fun. Isn't it?

[sandman67]

Making the science fit the policy is rattling good fun. Isn't it?

except that that is demonstrably not the case at all.

[MrPlum]

Making the science fit the policy is rattling good fun. Isn't it?

except that that is demonstrably not the case at all.

Can you explain why it is that when you have had more than enough examples of lies involving the nexus of politicians, corporations and media, you are so confident you are being told the truth?

A relatively new science 'Climatology', which is dependent on funding for its survival, is NOT going to find that AGW is bogus OR that it's impact overall is negligible and therefore guarantee its own demise. They HAVE to find 'evidence', to survive. Media-driven global warming scares have been pushed before, long before this latest iteration. 'Nov. 2, 1922 edition of The Washington Post: "Arctic Ocean Getting Warm; Seals Vanish and Icebergs Melt.'

Sound familiar?

How many media-driven, fear-based scams does it take before you say 'I don't trust what I am being told anymore?' The public have lost confidence in the pronouncements of politicians, know corporations have hijacked government and they certainly don't trust the media.

Take AIDS. A virus that (unless something has changed) no-one can find in victims, dead or alive. We were all going to perish if we didn't all wear condoms or stop sex altogether. The AIDS 'virus' turns out to be rather racist, killing blacks in Africa by the million and leaving the white heterosexual population in the west virtually unscathed. They don't even bother with evidence. I read that if an African dies of any one of 26 symptoms and is black, they are automatically designated as dying from AIDS. Great science. No need to prove it. Just assume it.

Ozone warriors brought us the 'Hole in The Ozone Layer' frenzy which was going to give us all cancer and "all animals of the world [except, of course, those that wore protective goggles] would be blinded if they ventured out during the daytime.''. Miraculously was never heard of again and even started to close (after the public had moved onto the next bandwagon).

http://american_almanac.tripod.com/cfc.htm
'The doomsday scientists have received a bonanza of research grants, titles, perks, positions, and much more, as a result of the publicity received by their theories. At the same time, the scientists who have had the courage to oppose the doomsday theories in public have had their papers rejected for publication, their grant money discontinued, and in some cases, have even lost their research and teaching positions.'

We have the 'demonstrably' proven science which says mercury is a highly toxic poison when on a dentist's desk but miraculously becomes harmless when put in our mouths. Have you ever had any Mercury fillings MrS? Isn't that an immediate threat to your health? Have you done anything about it? Will you admit that in your blog?

We have the 'Swine Flu' scam part IV. Hey! If it worked for Rumsfeld in '76 it will work again and again and again and again. SARS, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, West Nile Virus. Can't wait for part V. 'H1N2516 transmitted by Iranian Terrorists!'..

Delighted spokesman from Merck... "Less people died than were killed by lightning and look how much money we made! Whoopee!"

We are expected to believe that a criminal class who are happy to spitroast brown babies in country after country and irradiate the soil with depleted uranium, are overcome with concern and compassion for the planet? The same people who, long before any progress on the climate can ever be made, will have turned the earth into a nuclear wasteland, by bombing Iran and triggering WWIII?

Yep. Fret and worry about rising sea levels in 100 years, while immediate destruction is only a Neocon and Rapture-filled wet dream away.

The Peer review process was biased towards AGW. We know that.

Independent researchers were figuring out how to deligitimize scientists and scientific publications who weren't parroting their GW mantra. We know that.

The Chicago Climate Exchange, set up by Gore, Obama and GoldinMySacks, collapsed because the GAO (Government Accountability Office) said there was NO WAY to quantify the emissions individuals or companies were emitting, nor how much that would impact the climate. If they can't quantify the emissions, they can't charge them. Oops!

Steve has already acknowledged the solutions on the table won't work.

China's emissions won't peak until 2030, whatever the guff about progress they are making now.

We know, because it's already been proven, that Carbon Trading schemes are MASSIVE opportunities for fraud. It's happening in Europe.

The 'science' is only a bit-part player in what is a political, social and financial opportunity for corporations and the wealthy. You should have learned by now, the greater the media hype, the more likely it is to be a scam. They can lie like cheap hookers over Swine Flu to sell more vaccines. Lie like cheap hookers to sell wars and Islamophobia. Lie over stranded Polar Bears and Hockey Stick graphs.

Your confidence in Science is misplaced. Remember the CURES promised by stem cells, gene therapy, and the human genome? Decades of media hype and scientific back-slapping? What actually happened? The treatments developed killed or injured the human guinea pigs. Monsanto couldn't care less. It has bought up the world's seeds, patented them and engineered them, for profit. Under the GRAS laws, they don't even have to test them.

Here's my difficulty with AGW. Even if it is valid and, of course we are chucking vast amounts of pollutants into the atmosphere, the social, financial and political ramifications are a far greater risk to us than a warming planet. Because criminal syndicates have captured all the various bodies supposed to protect the people. Whether it is Nobel handing out Peace prizes to murdering Presidents, the FDA giving free passes to drug companies, the WHO declaring phoney pandemics.

All I can see is, just as we find in medicine, the treatment is worse than the disease.

[STEVE G]

Here's my difficulty with AGW. Even if it is valid and, of course we are chucking vast amounts of pollutants into the atmosphere, the social, financial and political ramifications are a far greater risk to us than a warming planet.

If that is the case, shouldn't we be working out the risks and ramifications of acting or not acting instead of denying it is happening?
As I sit here now, I can see a road full of large gas-guzzling BMW's and the like; would a switch to smaller more efficient cars really be all that risky considering the extreme weather we could soon be facing? Would installing solar panels be worse than a tornado?