I think what really concerns me here - and these are personal reasons - is that the government might decide to raise the financial requirements to get a "marriage" extension considerably, as they have in the past.
At the current level, luckily I'm fine and still have a fair amount of leeway, but 60-70% increase over a few years will cause me problems. Unfortunately, I don't see my rental income in the UK increasing by the same amount - 3% odd a year is about right for my place.
So, if that were to happen, I'm back to doing Tourist visa runs - assuming they don't reinstate the 30 day stuff - and if they close that avenue down, I'm well and truely stuffed here.
Heaven knows what'll happen to us then. I would never have a problem with moving to a more visa friendly country, but I'm not sure how my Thai wife would take to it. All her family's here in HH. I can't imagine that she'd want to be 1,000km away from them. Then again, might be wrong and hopefully it never happens, however the past few year's track record dosn't bode well for anyone.
"Extension based on marriage to a Thai national" - 75k per mth.
"Extension based on retirement" - 100k per mth or 1.5m in the bank.
ARRRRGH!!!!! Cambodia, Malaysia, Papua New Guinea - here I come. Headhunters rule OK.
I know that's a bit tongue in cheek, but I do see something like it as a very real possibility over a number of years.
Future for Ex Pats in Thailand???
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Wanderlust
- Legend
- Posts: 2862
- Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:27 pm
- Location: Hua Hin
Good grief, Burger - the post of mine you have quoted was a reply to someone else, and I am happy that you agree with it, but I listed the clampdowns a few posts ago, and buksida has repeated (and added to) them in more abbreviated form since; by any stretch of the imagination these are clampdowns, as in the rules have been made more restrictive, more expensive and less people are able to comply with them! Unless your definition of clampdown is different to everyone elses? Is it when they arrive in jackboots, beat your door down and forcibly remove you? Or maybe force farangs to wear an armband with a letter 'F' on it, who can then be rounded up at will by the army and put into camps? If you are going to debate this topic, at least argue using the same definitions as everyone else, or tell us what your idea of a clampdown is.Burger wrote:Not sure I really disagree with you, but I still can't see all the clampdowns being imposed on us ?Wanderlust wrote:Paul,
I, for one, did not leave the UK because of immigrants or the governments immigration policy, so I can safely say that a different approach in those areas would not have made me stay. The big difference in Thailand is that there is no welfare system that immigrants can plunder, so I have never seen why it is necessary to make it hard for less wealthy foreigners to stay here; all the time they are here they are spending money, whether it is big or small amounts, all of which benefits the country, and more often than not is going to the poorer sections of Thai society who are working in the shops, restaurants, bars and guest houses they frequent. This is as opposed to wealthy foreigners, who will stay in the top class hotels (mostly owned by foreign companies) or buy properties that are kitted out with imported items, and shop for luxury items that are also imported. Of course some of their eagerly anticipated money finds it's way into Thai hands, but I can guarantee that more money comes from all the average Joes than the high flyers.
I have nothing against a government protecting it's citizens, but I do not believe that the Thai government has been doing that in the policies it has pursued; I really don't understand what successive governments have been trying to do in fact, except to line their own pockets, and why Thaksin needed to do that is totally beyond me when he was so wealthy already. The only protection the Thai people have is HM the King, and all us foreigners should be hoping, praying and shouting 'Long Live The King!'
Burger
Lomu to be fair to the thais when they raised the retirement req from 400K to 800K they grandfathered in and as far as i know they grandfathered in the marriage visas as well and i have no reason to believe they would not do it again so i am pretty sure we are gonna be OK
I do think it is a real possibility they WILL raise the bar in the future but to restrict numbers more than get rid off though and IMHO that would be good for us here already
What i would like to see is a proving yourself time 3 4 5 years and then yearly reporting as both of us have both been here for 9 years plus i think we have proved we are good citizens and should be given some credit for taking care of our familys dawn and her young boy buksi paying taxes and taking care of a family likewise it just seems a never ending treadmill of 90 days
It would be nice to see a light at the end of the tunnel though wouldnt it
I am still optimistic for the future though i didnt put it in my last post but these restrictions/clampdowns will deter any more or decrease the ammount of garbage coming in and eventually the immigration rules can be relaxed for those that have proved to be good honest law abiding citizens
I would be happy to be investigated or to have an interview/grilling if necessary rather than being treated as a long term tourist
I do think it is a real possibility they WILL raise the bar in the future but to restrict numbers more than get rid off though and IMHO that would be good for us here already
What i would like to see is a proving yourself time 3 4 5 years and then yearly reporting as both of us have both been here for 9 years plus i think we have proved we are good citizens and should be given some credit for taking care of our familys dawn and her young boy buksi paying taxes and taking care of a family likewise it just seems a never ending treadmill of 90 days
It would be nice to see a light at the end of the tunnel though wouldnt it
I am still optimistic for the future though i didnt put it in my last post but these restrictions/clampdowns will deter any more or decrease the ammount of garbage coming in and eventually the immigration rules can be relaxed for those that have proved to be good honest law abiding citizens
I would be happy to be investigated or to have an interview/grilling if necessary rather than being treated as a long term tourist
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Blimey - the sins of LOS, or the sins of the UK - Hobsons choice, it seems!
Well, I haven't even got there yet, but I'm aware of the changes that have happened and continue to be wary of further change and like Lomu, share concerns about monetary level requirements for various visas.
But a point I would like to raise, without scaremongering, for Brits, is why Hull? Its not the only Thai consulate in the UK so why are the visas obtained there the "easy route" compared to say, London? Why???
I know we're talkng LOS, but I gave up any attempt to get a visitors visa for my wife to visit the UK before we married, which would have been a sensible step to take, because the rules of the British Embassy are so rigourous, that it makes it hard, unless in Lomu's situation, for average Thais to get one.
But most fiancee and settlemeent visas are granted and once here on an SV, with the exception of access to benefits (but I can claim child benefit), they can work and get free medical treatment.
After two years, on the whole, its straightforward to get indefinite leave to remain, but now have to take a citizenship test and the fee has just doubled to something like 750 UK pound, but thats it.
Well, I haven't even got there yet, but I'm aware of the changes that have happened and continue to be wary of further change and like Lomu, share concerns about monetary level requirements for various visas.
But a point I would like to raise, without scaremongering, for Brits, is why Hull? Its not the only Thai consulate in the UK so why are the visas obtained there the "easy route" compared to say, London? Why???
I know we're talkng LOS, but I gave up any attempt to get a visitors visa for my wife to visit the UK before we married, which would have been a sensible step to take, because the rules of the British Embassy are so rigourous, that it makes it hard, unless in Lomu's situation, for average Thais to get one.
But most fiancee and settlemeent visas are granted and once here on an SV, with the exception of access to benefits (but I can claim child benefit), they can work and get free medical treatment.
After two years, on the whole, its straightforward to get indefinite leave to remain, but now have to take a citizenship test and the fee has just doubled to something like 750 UK pound, but thats it.
Talk is cheap
Good points.
Sarge, despite my knowing the requirements for a "marriage" extension to my Non O visa, I've done nothing about it since we returned from the UK last Oct. I agree that grandfathering will probably continue if there's another price hike. Your comments only impress on me the need to get on with the extension instead of sitting around drinking beer!!!. The sooner the better to "benefit" from the current requirements.
Caller. I went through heartache 10 years ago trying to get my then G/F a visit visa for the UK. She was turned down twice and so was my MP. That was one of the major reasons I quit my job and England. Looking back at it all, we were so short of documentary evidence, it makes me cringe to think about it now.
Years later, being married, having lived here at the time for 8.5 years etc etc etc, the visa took 3 days for my wife. You probably did the right thing in waiting until you were married. Much less stress, I assure you.
Also, Hull isn't the only consulate in the UK. All I know is that Thai consulates are almost always more "visa friendly" than Embassies. Don't know why, but it's well known. Probably has something to do with the fact that quite often there's no Thai people working there. Certainly there aren't in Hull. That's not meant to be nasty - just the case.
I'd be interested to see how long Hull continue giving out multi-entry Non Os on the basis of "visiting family and friends". That's a simple tick box on the application form. Last year, I telephoned and said I was married. They wanted the certificate - which I had - and I backed it up with copies of my wife's passport and ID card, both of which now carry my surname. I believe they are still issuing to visit family and friends, but that being the case why did they want to see our marriage certificate?
Sarge, despite my knowing the requirements for a "marriage" extension to my Non O visa, I've done nothing about it since we returned from the UK last Oct. I agree that grandfathering will probably continue if there's another price hike. Your comments only impress on me the need to get on with the extension instead of sitting around drinking beer!!!. The sooner the better to "benefit" from the current requirements.
Caller. I went through heartache 10 years ago trying to get my then G/F a visit visa for the UK. She was turned down twice and so was my MP. That was one of the major reasons I quit my job and England. Looking back at it all, we were so short of documentary evidence, it makes me cringe to think about it now.
Years later, being married, having lived here at the time for 8.5 years etc etc etc, the visa took 3 days for my wife. You probably did the right thing in waiting until you were married. Much less stress, I assure you.
Also, Hull isn't the only consulate in the UK. All I know is that Thai consulates are almost always more "visa friendly" than Embassies. Don't know why, but it's well known. Probably has something to do with the fact that quite often there's no Thai people working there. Certainly there aren't in Hull. That's not meant to be nasty - just the case.
I'd be interested to see how long Hull continue giving out multi-entry Non Os on the basis of "visiting family and friends". That's a simple tick box on the application form. Last year, I telephoned and said I was married. They wanted the certificate - which I had - and I backed it up with copies of my wife's passport and ID card, both of which now carry my surname. I believe they are still issuing to visit family and friends, but that being the case why did they want to see our marriage certificate?
They're taking away jobs that belong to Thais. That's how the Thais see it. Whine all you want, but that's what matters, if you live here.
Don't tell me about them creating additional employment for Thais either. Since they themselves are illegal, the farang-bosses would have no qualms about employing Thais outside the system as well (cash salary, no accounting, thus no taxes etc.) which equally angers the authorities. Or, they simply employ other illegal immigrants as well.
Get legal or get out. Your basic motivation to work illegally is personal greed. It makes a bad name for the rest of us who work with a permit, a B-visa, and pay our income taxes to the Thai government.
Don't tell me about them creating additional employment for Thais either. Since they themselves are illegal, the farang-bosses would have no qualms about employing Thais outside the system as well (cash salary, no accounting, thus no taxes etc.) which equally angers the authorities. Or, they simply employ other illegal immigrants as well.
Get legal or get out. Your basic motivation to work illegally is personal greed. It makes a bad name for the rest of us who work with a permit, a B-visa, and pay our income taxes to the Thai government.
Who was that aimed at Bearhug?
With regard to Thai Consulate or Thai Embassy. Yes, I'd have to agree. Last time I got a Visa was in 2004 and I got in Birmingham Thai Consulate. Piece of cake, issued on the same day. ITs true, no Thai staff (that I could see).
Place was full of people from London getting Visas too.
Winkie
With regard to Thai Consulate or Thai Embassy. Yes, I'd have to agree. Last time I got a Visa was in 2004 and I got in Birmingham Thai Consulate. Piece of cake, issued on the same day. ITs true, no Thai staff (that I could see).
Place was full of people from London getting Visas too.
Winkie
Semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
I admit my post took on the tone of a "rant." But happy you could see through the ranting to the core issues that really bother a lot of us "legals."
I have a Dutch acquaintance who works illegally as an English tutor, pulling in about 130,000 baht a month. Not much in terms of Western income, but an absolute fortune in Isaan. No income taxes, no visa or work permit expenses. Ah, such a carefree life! This English tutor's accent is so heavy I have to listen very intently to understand him.
It's not so much the money that he makes (about 3-4 times more than legally-working native speaker English teachers), but it's his attitude that grates on me every time we get together for a beer: "You poor, stupid Sod! Why do you keep slugging it out at a university, making peanuts the legal way, when you can have all this (points at new sports car), doing it my way?" Followed by deep belly laugh, and another toast to my complete idiocy. I keep reminding him that all it takes is one "raid" or one dissatisfied student to lodge a complaint with the authorities, and he loses all (unless he's got the authorities wrapped around his little bribery finger, too).
No one should ever be belittled for trying to be above-board and obeying the law to the best of their ability. I know, I should get new friends. But, hard to come by in rural Isaan.
Hence, my rant. Thanks, I feel better now.
I have a Dutch acquaintance who works illegally as an English tutor, pulling in about 130,000 baht a month. Not much in terms of Western income, but an absolute fortune in Isaan. No income taxes, no visa or work permit expenses. Ah, such a carefree life! This English tutor's accent is so heavy I have to listen very intently to understand him.
It's not so much the money that he makes (about 3-4 times more than legally-working native speaker English teachers), but it's his attitude that grates on me every time we get together for a beer: "You poor, stupid Sod! Why do you keep slugging it out at a university, making peanuts the legal way, when you can have all this (points at new sports car), doing it my way?" Followed by deep belly laugh, and another toast to my complete idiocy. I keep reminding him that all it takes is one "raid" or one dissatisfied student to lodge a complaint with the authorities, and he loses all (unless he's got the authorities wrapped around his little bribery finger, too).
No one should ever be belittled for trying to be above-board and obeying the law to the best of their ability. I know, I should get new friends. But, hard to come by in rural Isaan.
Hence, my rant. Thanks, I feel better now.
winkie i hope you dont mind me adding and helping the thai people govt and economy in the process
Just a small aside i went back to read my predictions on a thread called "crystal ball time please" on beach bar topic it makes interesting reading in light of this thread the whole thread not just my post
Just a small aside i went back to read my predictions on a thread called "crystal ball time please" on beach bar topic it makes interesting reading in light of this thread the whole thread not just my post
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand
Hey Guyssargeant wrote:winkie i hope you dont mind me adding and helping the thai people govt and economy in the process
Just a small aside i went back to read my predictions on a thread called "crystal ball time please" on beach bar topic it makes interesting reading in light of this thread the whole thread not just my post
Excellent meaningfull topic and replie's, good discussion and feedback.
Can be done.
I agree with all of the stuff about being legal and about clamping down on those who are not.
My gripe, as you are all aware by now, is that they treat the legals the same as they do the criminals! So for some the attitude is "why bother?" they still treat me like a c*** whether I pay taxes or not.
My gripe, as you are all aware by now, is that they treat the legals the same as they do the criminals! So for some the attitude is "why bother?" they still treat me like a c*** whether I pay taxes or not.
Who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on shore and merely existed? - Hunter S Thompson
What jobs? I havn't done an iota of work here for 9 years. Don't need to. And @75% of my monthly income is brought over from the UK every month to support my Thai wife and I. It's all spent here. There may be some rich folk who come over once in a while for their holidays - and good luck to them, but I bet they don't spend anywhere near what I do, over a year, in Thailand. That comment was a bit uncalled for. No-ones talking about working - legally or illegally. The discussion is about legitimate ex-pats here, who stay on the basis of off-shore income supporting their spouses, retiring or working legitimately and paying tax.BEARHUG wrote:They're taking away jobs that belong to Thais. That's how the Thais see it. Whine all you want, but that's what matters, if you live here.
Don't tell me about them creating additional employment for Thais either. Since they themselves are illegal, the farang-bosses would have no qualms about employing Thais outside the system as well (cash salary, no accounting, thus no taxes etc.) which equally angers the authorities. Or, they simply employ other illegal immigrants as well.
Get legal or get out. Your basic motivation to work illegally is personal greed. It makes a bad name for the rest of us who work with a permit, a B-visa, and pay our income taxes to the Thai government.
BTW - you're obviously good at copy/pasting because I noticed your two previous posts on another forum this morning - verbatim. At least try to rewrite and follow the thread. I know it's hot, but nevertheless. Thanks.
I am going to stick my exceedingly long neck out here in bearhugs defence i think he was trying to say it is the illegal workers that are causing the clampdowns and up to a point that is true but it isnt the whole picture though
As i said its an endless tunnel for the people like lomu me buksi WL and dawn and the clampdown has effected us all, as if we are the illegals which we most definitely are not and none of us (and thats a fair few years betwixt us) have even the remotest chance of gaining resident status. Yet after 3 years of marriage my WIFE (not mrs sarge) had a UK citizenship document and a UK passport.
After 9 years (22 years and still married to her)having never worked having spent 4 million in the first year and about 1 million each year since all money imported from outside the country and taken care of my family and put 2 kids through higher education and the best i have ever had is my present retirement visa and 90 day reporting exactely the same as an illegal like your mate
It is the fact that the thai govt dont even try to sort the wheat from the chaff which is our gripe as i say if you have prooved yourself every 90 days for 3-4-5 years what about giving us yearly reporting just to let us know we are appreciated for helping in a small way thailands future
bluddy silly of me to think like that but us martians are dreamers
As i said its an endless tunnel for the people like lomu me buksi WL and dawn and the clampdown has effected us all, as if we are the illegals which we most definitely are not and none of us (and thats a fair few years betwixt us) have even the remotest chance of gaining resident status. Yet after 3 years of marriage my WIFE (not mrs sarge) had a UK citizenship document and a UK passport.
After 9 years (22 years and still married to her)having never worked having spent 4 million in the first year and about 1 million each year since all money imported from outside the country and taken care of my family and put 2 kids through higher education and the best i have ever had is my present retirement visa and 90 day reporting exactely the same as an illegal like your mate
It is the fact that the thai govt dont even try to sort the wheat from the chaff which is our gripe as i say if you have prooved yourself every 90 days for 3-4-5 years what about giving us yearly reporting just to let us know we are appreciated for helping in a small way thailands future
bluddy silly of me to think like that but us martians are dreamers
A Greatfull Guest of Thailand