Code of conduct in the Hua Hin real estate market ?????

[redzonerocker]

I think thats what this thread is all about. What should happen obviously doesn't happen sometimes so we are looking for ways to ensure they do happen, in order to protect the customer and improve the image of the property market. At least thats what I think we are talking about!

there are very few ways to ensure 100% that good practice is complied with across the board in such a huge industry.
like i said in my previous post, some developers have built up a reputation built on trust, honesty & good business ethic. they already have an acceptable code of conduct.
so the question is, what will they gain further from this new process of regulation??

by the way, the use of escrow is by far the best suggestion i have seen on this thread.

[Jockey]

Redzonerocker - I agree with you! Is that a first

[Super Joe]

some developers have built up a reputation built on trust, honesty & good business ethic. they already have an acceptable code of conduct.
so the question is, what will they gain further from this new process of regulation??

It's a good question, I'd say:
1. They genuinely do not want to see buyers get stuffed, especially in a business they work in.
2. It could restore confidence in market so a benefit.
3. They should qualify if they do all this as standard, therefore a business advantage if on the list.
4. Competition who do not provide all that's required have lower operating costs and therefore an advantage.

Escrow - would be a good thing for buyers, it's been bought in for condo's hasn't it, but would be a problem for small to medium developers from cash-flow point of view.

SJ

[T.I.G.R.]

For all of you wondering how the interests of buyers figure into this, you will note by my posts I am not involved as anything but an interested observer.....interested because I wasn't only stupid enough to get fleeced once, but actually nearly had it done twice.

It isn't as hard as you think. As noted, none of the rules we are all used to are in play here. As all of us here now know, this is truly the wild west of real estate. I can't think of one safeguard or rule that will protect a buyer in Hua Hin. We filed a complaint with the District D.A. a year ago and haven't had a resolution yet, or even a promise of a court date. It will happen hopefully, but my wife is Thai which gave us entre into the court system. Many expat purchasers won't have the option.

Our complaint? Paying two million for a piece of land and being denied the Chanote........the party refusing to part with it told the District Attorney of Prauchaup Khiri Khan they would rather go to court because it was more fun than paying up.........no kidding.

That's one of the two situations we found ourselves in....no need to keep going, I think it speaks for itself.

I know certainly I'm not the only one in Hua Hin that will be involved and participating in these discussions. We have been heard, and the volume of, and level of participation should assure you there is a great deal of interest and commitment in the community to finally clean things up.

It won't be fast and it won't be easy, but I truly think the level of the problem has finally been discovered,or recognized by enough influential business people here to set things straight. Just give them a chance, please.

[redzonerocker]

Redzonerocker - I agree with you! Is that a first

could be

i think more importantly though, it's also good to agree to disagree

[moja]

It's a weird one too as developers shouldn't even be paying for these repairs, their builder will as it's piggy-backed onto their contracts. A lot of it is a falling out and things getting personal.

SJ[/quote]

Sorry but the purchaser's contract is with the developer - whatever penalty clauses he has with his builder is nothing to do with the purchaser! However if the developer pays the builder absolute minimum that is the quality of the work he will get.

It should be up to the developer to seek redress from the builder not the poor home owner; once the snagging has been completed to the satisfaction of the "customer"

Customer seems to be a forgotten word around here.

Why things get personnal; that is another argument one we chose to opt out of but believe me it cost us a lot but in the end it gave us peace of mind. Why would we want the same cowboy who created the defects to attempt to correct them??

I really do look forward to hearing the outcome of Monday's meeting but this is the time transparency, something for all to read and comment on not just the few who are willing to declare themselves

[redzonerocker]

yes super joe good points of reply

& to your post t.i.g.r, yes the property & development market is a minefield. it is very easy to be duped & misguided.

i'm all for the big clean up of the rogue dealers & traders. i just think there is a lot more to it than introducing some kind of regulatory council which will quite likely have little impact.

without the full backing of the thai authorities, it will be a fruitless task.
are the police & local politicians going to back your campaign & enforce the regulations you propose? will it progress to regional & national level?
if not the proposals lack any real substance & offer no more protection that is currently in place.

sorry if it sounds negative but i'm just being realistic. the rules & regulations in the uk construction industry are pretty tight, but it is still open to abuse & is abused at every opportunity.
the thai authorities are aware of the situation, yet have done little to regulate things themselves, that speaks volumes for itself!!

still, you have my sincere best wishes for a successful outcome & brighter future

[Super Joe]

moja,
Yes the developer has obligation to fix any defects, whether he puts it in his contract or not. I was saying it's a weird one why they do not when normally they do not even have to pay for it. I agree with you about this. It's been given to the team as an issue already and will be brought up at meeting on Monday.

SJ

[PKBCXKT]

redzonerocker, yes I totally agree, the backing of first, the provincal, hopefully controlling the local authorithies is needed. I think we can get that. Than further, we try to establish contacts with similar movements in Bangkok and the Eastern Seaboard and see how they do it. There might come a synergy to be strong enough to go to BKK. It would be great and getting a bit closer as to how it is in the western world.

pk

[sessachief]

Identify several neutrals that have no vested interests.
Then praise developments,and developers.
Only if the identified all agree should the builder/estate agent /development/etc etc be given stars .
However if you cannot trust yourselves then how will you trust others.
Golden rule is buyer beware,it strikes me as dangerous to buy off plan in Hua Hin, or indeed Thailand !
invest in what is already built,there is a huge amount of places for sale.
Start small and grow, make no negative comments on those that you believe are guilty of poor provision, that way you cannot be libelous.
I have held off from investing as far too many rogue traders, but it has been an eye opener looking at development in Hua Hin.
The Escrow account is a very good idea.. but people will be persuaded otherwise!
If you are really concerned bring in people from countries you trust to give advise !
But the real secret is to praise the already built places, and then people can put two and two together.
If you can trust yourselves!!

[clive]

It has been real interesting reading the continuation of this thread. I believe that some really worthwhile comments and suggestions have been made and congratulate Lev on allowing the thread to continue. I really believe that if those present at tomorrows meeting truly want this idea to succeed it will and for sure that will to be to the advantage of every respectable developer and agent. The customer has to be given some degree of surety that his investment will be overseen and protected.
Jockeys idea with the trade association and the standardization of a common contract and business practice is the best idea I have seen. A contract that is fair to both sides, incorporating payments on a milestone basis with an agreed snagging cover and construction guarantee period is the way forward. I may not know many of the participants in this thread but it appears to me that it has involved agents, existing owners and future purchasers; I may have missed the input from a developer, if so I apologize.
My recommendation is that the AGENTS should form an association allowing only those agents that meet the association’s criteria to become members. The association should then enter discussions with the developers with the intention of reaching agreement that the developers agree to use the association’s standard contract and the milestones and agree to accept that they will only be paid their milestone payments following an inspection of the build. The payment for these inspections can be decided on after the association is formed; personally I just ask the developers to allow an increase in the commission paid to the agent and then use that to cover my cost. The association should then collect a membership fee from its members, a substantial part of which should be used to advertise the merits of buying a property using an accredited member who will direct them to buy from a developer who has agreed to the association’s terms. The sensible developers will see the merit in the association and will work with them. Working together is the only way forward.
My two-penny worth to hopefully help towards giving the meeting tomorrow a fighting chance.
And yes, if an association is formed with the right intentions, even if I do not agree to all the conditioned or ideas I would hope to be a founder member.

[sargeant]

I fear that if the only sanction against the wrong doers is being thrown out of the organization (or being denied entry in the first place) this will not have sufficient teeth to clear out the undesirable element.

A suggestion was made that the "bad guys", who everybody apparently knows, be made examples of by the Tessaban/Police/Govt and prosecuted and thrown out the country, would immediately force all others to improve standards and reduce scams. This was accepted as wishful thinking by most.

What I can say is that the Police and council staff appeared to come for their free meal and photo opportunity and during my time there the developers and agents discussed the matter amongst themselves and did not mix with the Police/council at all.

Having read all the posts again the 3 paragraphs above stand out to me

To put my thoughts in short it sounds to me the xenophobes have won the day and granted the foxes the contract to design, build and run the security on the chicken coop

I wish you all the best in your endeavors and I shall follow this hoping I am proved wrong

[Super Joe]

Hi Clive,
There's a couple of developers on here who have been inputting, me, crazy88, splitlid, just PM'd you who I am, you know me well.
Can you clarify what you mean by:
"I just ask the developers to allow an increase in the commission paid to the agent and then use that to cover my cost"
The developers will be paying a fee to be a member of the body, this is to cover costs of the professionals like lawyers, architects, engineers. As there will be a business advantage to it, I don't suppose the developers will mind.
The same should go for the agents, they pay a fee and get the benefits that go with it.

Cheers,
SJ

[clive]

Agreed Sargeant, it will all have to be voluntary, I think a few of the people here need to understand that the government, the governor and the police have no interest in applying any pressure, it is against their culture, take a look around, there is no complaints procedure within any Thai owned company or government dept, they simply accept Buyer Beware as the basis of their business ethics. I am afraid that we all have to get used to doing business in a diferent way, trying to reason with people instead of rushing to the courts. That is why it is important to set an association in place with a set agenda and business practice before talking to the other interested parties, basically the associations ideas will have to be sold to the developers to get their agreement.

[clive]

Super Joe, thanks for your reply, I am afraid that I may get your pm but I am unable to reply to them, Lev? I did state that the pricing structure needs to be looked at after the association is in place, there are various ways to set it up, but lets not get it to complicated, if we do this properly it is to the good of all of us and for sure there are costs involved they just need to be meeted out in a sensible manner. I look forward to meeting you all tomorrow.