2 tier pricing for Thais

[chopsticks]

I only ever shagged one sheep but my mates still call me a ........

SJ

What's that got to do with the price of eggs ?

[Super Joe]

What's that got to do with the price of eggs ?

If we discriminate against Thais or other foreigners in our country, then we discrimintate. It doesn't really matter if it's only against 100,000 compared to Thais doing it to 'x' million, imo.

We discrimintate, abuse labour rights, under-pay, over-charge etc, and they discrimintate, abuse labour rights, under-pay, over-charge etc.

SJ

[Super Joe]

There must be thousands of well qualified Brits also currently earning less than their qualifications should bring. The job market is in favour of the employer at the moment, with numerous people queuing for too few jobs. This is not 2 tier discrimination as per the OP, but market forces at work.

Ok, but when there is a Brit with equal qualifications not forced to work shifts without pay, do extra jobs not in their contracts like ironing, cleaning and painting walls then that is discrimination. But if we leave aside qualifications/job position, all the other examples of discriminating against foreign workers are examples of what I was getting at. We do it just as the Thais do it.

We over-charge foreigners in the UK but then complain about it when it is done to us in Thailand.

We farang business owners over here discrimintate against Thai staff members, abuse their labour rights, under pay them for the same job a farang is doing then complain when we get charged 20 Baht to go in a national park.

Collectively we don't seem to practice what we preach.

SJ

[Big Boy]

I'm sorry SJ, but I'm not really sure where we're going with this. I'm certainly not looking for a Plumesque type discussion. We'll have to agree to disagree on similar discrimination in the UK. Mind you, I do believe your statement, "We farang business owners over here discrimintate against Thai staff members, abuse their labour rights, under pay them for the same job a farang is doing then complain when we get charged 20 Baht to go in a national park" could warrant a thread all of its own. I must admit, I'd never thought of it that way, and would love to know more.


Johan stated:

If they charge double price for any tourist, thai or farang it's fair and it's ok for me. If they charge only to farangs and farang wives is not fair.

I asked why was it fair for Thais to 2 tier charge tourists regardless of nationality, but then indicated that farangs and their wives (I assume he meant resident in Thailand) should not pay extra.

You then turned it around to discrimination in the UK.

Getting back to the subject of double pricing in Thailand, I don't see why farangs resident in Thailand should be treat differently to those just visiting. Both sets of farangs are paying their necessary taxes etc. My question is still, why should their be 2 tier pricing for resident and visiting farang?

[Super Joe]

My point to Mags' OP is that what we experience here in Thailand regarding over-charging, is something that goes on the world over unfortunately. Doesn't make it right of course, but it's part of human nature.

The UK treatment of Thai workers was just an example to give a different point of view on the general treatment of Thais, to your comment:

Thais come to my country, and don't even get charged.

SJ

[Big Boy]

On that point, we definitely agree. We all sell our services (regardless of trade) for the best price we can get.

[Edit] The above refers to you opening paragraph.

[mabubba]

My question is still, why should their be 2 tier pricing for resident and visiting farang?

I don't think its any more than economics. Sellers will ask for what the market will bear. I think over time, sellers become used to charging more to indiscriminate buyers. Tourists are easy to spot in Thailand and sellers became accustomed to the easy pickings. Most of the time, infrequent tourists don't know the costs of local goods and tend to be complacent with the prices offered. This complacency become endemic within the tourist economy and sellers learn to game the system. It begins with touristy trinkets and baubles sold on the street and then moves upstream to other goods and services. Locals become aware and are able to avoid most of the price gouging by negotiating with sellers, going to restaurants away from tourist areas, or buying trinkets in bulk from the source (just like the small vendors do).

To me price gouging becomes egregious when it hits essential services like utilities and healthcare. It becomes harder to avoid gouging for these types of items.

[margaretcarnes]

SuperJoe - sure some immigrant workers in the UK are descriminated against - even legal ones - but surely only because they don't understand how to take action against it? I've seen it happen with Polish workers who don't understand the system, but more importantly DARE'NT question things and can follow dangerous working practice as a result.
It's down to unscrupulous employers of course and it should be sorted - if we ever get a government that will tackle the problem. But surely a legit farang employer of Thais in the LOS wouldn't risk paying less than legal minimum? Providing of course they can establish what that amount should be for their Province.
Ok - I know I'm going to get all the stuff now about backhanders etc but it beats me why any farang running a legal business would take such a stupid risk for the sake of a few baht.

But back to the topic and to Johan - we aren't talking here about the example of a 'tourist' - but a Thai national who happens to be married to a farang and spends a lot of her time abroad. Thailand is still legally her country. Why would she even think to ask for a price first under the circumstances? And even if she did - would she then walk out and lose face? Doubtful. As it was she did query the fee when billed - and was told 'because you have farang name.'
If my company in the UK did that to every client with a foreign name we would soon be up shit creek.

[Super Joe]

It's down to unscrupulous employers of course and it should be sorted

Yes that was my point, that we are not whiter than whiter when it comes to exploiting foreigners.

But surely a legit farang employer of Thais in the LOS wouldn't risk paying less than legal minimum?

The point I was making was more about not respecting their working conditions under the labour laws rather than salaries. But when it comes to salaries they do pay them less than the minimum wage in many cases based on the hours they work, or as in many bar workers they do not pay them at all


I certainly wasn't moralizing about it, and guilty of it ourselves at times I'm sure, just makes me laugh when these same people complain they had to pay 40 Baht to spend the day in a national park.

But while sort of related in the overall scheme of things, this is off-topic by me, so as you say:


SJ

[Johan]

Because they are tourists, they are on vacation, they profit from roads, from mosquitos and everything Thailand has to offer for FREE. Tourists are not paying any tax in Thailand, they should pay more, that's all. Don't mater if they are white or not, a tourist should pay more. With the misere all arround the world the luxury vacations should be highly taxed.

But for thai people a farang is always a tourist so they charge you more even if you live here and contribute already as a citizen. Even after 20 years you will be considered a farang, a stranger, a guy from the other world. That's why i don't like double pricing for farangs, they should rename this as a tourist tax as we do in France, so we can charge anyone visiting our country without having the fear of discrimination because don't mater your color, you are going to pay if you don't live in the country at full time. And if you live in the country for full time you are going to pay too a lot of different taxs, France is the most taxed country in the world, even China has lower taxes.

[Big Boy]

Tourists are not paying any tax in Thailand, they should pay more, that's all.

This is my last post on this subject because you have just shown how naive you are. The average tourist in Thailand will pay more tax during their time in Thailand than the average resident. Therefore, using your argument, tourists should be paying less.

[BaaBaa.]

I'm not really aware of the red shirt and yellow shirt story

Yes I see that.

You really need to educate yourself. Ignorance is probably where your Ladyboy argument come from and your falling out with the Market Village tech guy. I've managed to not fall out with anybody in 6 years.

[caller]

I've seen it happen with Polish workers who don't understand the system, but more importantly DARE'NT question things and can follow dangerous working practice as a result. It's down to unscrupulous employers of course and it should be sorted - if we ever get a government that will tackle the problem

Off topic again, but in the UK, much exploitation of foriegn workers (bizarrely, often a win/win situation) comes from their own countrymen who recruit and employ them, whatever their nationality.

Personally, I'd chuck them all out.

[lomuamart]

Good post mabubba,
And trying to follow the title of this thread, my wife does the shopping - food, clothes etc. She's happy with that and if I were to go with her she almost certainly would be treated differently and probably charged more. If I were to question the price, in my very rudimentary Thai, my wife and the seller would probably "lose face". So, I don't even bother with things like that now.

[Johan]

I'm not really aware of the red shirt and yellow shirt story

Yes I see that.

You really need to educate yourself. Ignorance is probably where your Ladyboy argument come from and your falling out with the Market Village tech guy. I've managed to not fall out with anybody in 6 years.

The market village guy told me 3 days to repair my xbox, after a month it wasn't repaired, i told him i was going to call the police and we went into an argument.

3 days is 3 days, if you are not sure you don't say anything, that's all. The child of my wife was in my home for a month (schools holidays) and he's a crazy boy, i was hoping to let him play the xbox all day so i could relax.

After that i've got my xbox 2 days later, he got scared ? I don't know. Anyway it was too late, the boy returned to school in Bangkok.