The Rugby Thread

[PeteC]

Had some time to do some research and found the following. I think this clarifies things for me:

Clarification in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
If a player in tackling an opponent makes contact with the ball and the ball goes forward from the ball carriers hands, that is a knock on.

If a player rips the ball or deliberately knocks the ball from an opponent's hands and the ball goes forward from the ball carrier's hands, that is not a knock on.
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I'm an amateur referee but even I struggle with this one, so I'm trying to get a bit more of a detailed explanation. Hope you all can help.

As I'm sure you've all seen, many times during a ruck, a player will legally come through the middle, but still be tied up. With one free arm, he will attempt to lean over the ruck and knock the ball out of the SH's hands after he has picked it out clean from the ruck. Sometimes I have seen this called for a penalty, other times it is play on. In the USA rugby game management guidelines, it reads:

"Players in the ruck may under no circumstance slap the ball out of the scrumhalf’s hands or interfere with the scrumhalf. PK"

However, I can't find exactly what law it pertains to in the law book. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Reply: It's mainly to do with when the ref feels the ruck is over

Once the ruck is over, then it becomes open play and you can tackle the scrum half/try to rip the ball away as you want. However, players interpretations of when this is differs to refs - in fact refs often differ with each other, which makes it harder

generally, if the scrum half has his hands on the ball and the ball is off the ground, ruck is over. Most penalties are given in the split second before the ball comes off the ground, or due to really bad mis-timing
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This is a rule that I get a bit frustrated with, for two reasons:

a) Judging whether it is intentional or not is obviously difficult
b) I don't understand where the rationale comes from

b) stems from the fact that it's perfectly legal to knock the ball backwards, to disrupt play, so for the life of me I don't see why knocking it forwards should be any different. It should be called a knock on, like any other knock on that occurs. Knocking it forward/backwards has exactly the same effect, and exactly the same rationale from a player - why should it be any different?

Care to discuss?

Unintentionally knocking the ball backwards is not an infringement, therefore intentionally knocking the ball backwards is not an infringement.

Unintentionally knocking the ball forwards IS an infringement, therefore intentionally knocking the ball forwards is a deliberate infringement, which is a penalty kick.

Taking away the penalty for a deliberate knock on would encourage players to try to intercept that ball, knowing that the worse they could give away would be a feed to the scrum.

Do we really want to encourage this?

[PeteC]

What's your opinion about the level of play comparing the Pro 12 and Aviva Premiership? Are they on the same level of skill? Pete

[PeteC]

Super Rugby 2016 is officially underway with the champion Dunedin Highlanders falling to the Auckland Blues. Game 2 the Hurricanes vs Brumbies starts in a few minutes on Setanta. Times below are Thai times. Pete

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/

phpg1OpySAM.jpg (68.21 KiB) Viewed 861 times

[dtaai-maai]

Am in the process of working my way through the first round of Super Rugby games. I was a bit sceptical of the addition of the Japanese and Argentinian sides, thinking they might turn out to be whipping boys for the rest. Not so. Japan did okayish, although they lost, but the Jaguares put in a great performance in SA against the Cheetahs. Early in the 1st half they had 2 players in the sin bin (9 and 10, what's more!) and went 24-3 down. Hugely entertaining game.

EDIT: Something else that caught my eye is the number of youngsters (19-22) playing in SR.

[dtaai-maai]

Doctors urge schools to ban tackling in rugby

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-35696238

More than 70 doctors and academics are calling for a ban on tackling in rugby matches played in UK and Irish schools.

In an open letter to ministers, they say injuries from this "high-impact collision sport" can have lifelong consequences for children.

They argue two thirds of injuries in youth rugby and most concussions are down to tackles and urge schools to move to touch and non-contact rugby.

Well, I take the point. I lost a few teeth myself when at school and saw a very nasty leg break (and more bizarrely, a nipple sliced off!). BUT, where do you stop? If this went ahead, you might as well ban rugby altogether, because nobody would be playing it anyway. Should kids be prevented from riding bikes, climbing trees, boiling a kettle, etc.?

[arcadianagain]

My grandson plays touch rugby in Sydney, but then he is only 5! It teaches them the basic skills before they move on to the real thing. A counter argument was put forward on Sky News today showing the actual % of such injuries and it is much lower than other sporting activities, plus kids are being taught how to tackle safely.

[pharvey]

Sliced off nipples ( ) aside, this is ridiculous - OK, youngsters at the age of arcadian's grandson should stick with touch rugby IMHO, but banning tackling altogether in schools is going way over the top. Kids of "secondary school" age (11+) should be encouraged to partake in all aspects of the game - I strongly believe that teaching them how to tackle properly and safely is far more beneficial than trying to ignore this particular aspect of the game. How can having big lads of 16+ running around like headless chickens tackling for the first time be anyway safer?? Please oh please keep the do-gooder society away from the game played in heaven.

And now to go off on a tangent...... They have American Football at Wembley, now the Premiership take rugby union State-side - a bold and welcome move IMO : -

Premiership in the USA: London Irish and Saracens Prepare for Landmark Fixture

"Premiership: London Irish v Saracens
Venue: Red Bull Arena, Harrison, New Jersey Date: Saturday 12 March Kick-off: 20:00 GMT Coverage: Full match commentary on BBC Radio Berkshire and BBC Radio 5 live sports extra, plus live text commentary on the BBC Sport website and app
"It's difficult to break the States. The Beatles managed it, One Direction got there, I think, and now it's Premiership Rugby's turn."

Those are the words of Premiership commercial director Dominic Hayes as the English game prepares to break new ground on Saturday when its first competitive fixture overseas kicks-off just half an hour from the bright lights of Manhattan and New York.

The location: The 25,000-capacity Red Bull Arena in Harrison, New Jersey. The teams: London Irish and Saracens. The reason: To expand the game and bring it to new markets, according to the organisers.

But, despite being "a flagship game", there is still the simple matter of points at stake for both sides.

With just seven games remaining in the season, bottom-of-the-table London Irish's top-flight survival hangs by a thread, while Sarries are looking to consolidate their lead at the top."

Full Story: - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35743821

[arcadianagain]

Much is being made of the illegal scrummaging and the difficulty referees have in spotting it. A few years ago lifting at lineouts was illegal until it was made legal. I`m sure the authorities could find a way of doing the same with scrums, and whilst they`re at it look at feeding the scrum.

[Big Boy]

OMG, I was expecting a rugby match, not a one horse race.

[J.J.B.]

Clearly you didn't watch it to the end, BB! The question is where was the Wales of the last15 minute for the first 65?!

[arcadianagain]

Polishing their end of match winners` interviews

[Big Boy]

Clearly you didn't watch it to the end, BB! The question is where was the Wales of the last15 minute for the first 65?!

Yes, I watched it to the end, but it was all over by half time. I think the Welsh had been brainwashed into thinking they were superior - they were not. England totally dominated that first half.

I agree that Wales played some pretty football in the last 20 minutes, but a rugby match is 80 minutes.

[PET]

There is a lot more to come from England over the next year with excellent young pretenders in the wings -Itoji was immense and only his third cap -" little" Wales your days will be difficult from now on.

[musungu]

England played at great pace which gave then quick ball, and Wales did not seeem to expect this and made error afrer error because of it. Their score could have been much greater with a little more luck in the first 20 mins. They outplayed Wales for 70 mins or until their prop was given a yellow card and two lessons they should learn (1) don't get yellow cards during the last period (2) be careful about bringing on substitutions. In the world Cup they also make some substitution mistakes and also yesterday. When a team is going well leave it for as long as possible ( not this Ah 60mins etc we must change ) because it is not so easy to pick up the game pace and certainly not when things start to go wrong as they did when changes started with 15mins left. Anyway a much improved England and they have many youngsters about to emerge - I guess ITOJI has already !!

[PeteC]

Highlanders begin search http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/n ... in-search/

The search for a new head coach for the Highlanders is officially underway.

CEO Roger Clark said the Highlanders Board and New Zealand Rugby would look to finalise a replacement before the end of the current season.

“We are keen to get this process under way now so we are actively seeking expressions of interest over the next month or so with a view to making an appointment mid-year," he said.

"We want to cast the net far and wide and now is the ideal time to be in the market as the Japanese season has concluded and the northern hemisphere season is drawing to a close.”

Current Head Coach Jamie Joseph will take up his role as Head Coach of Japan at the end of the 2016 Super Rugby season and will guide their national team through to their campaign as host union of Rugby World Cup 2019 in Japan.

As the current Super Rugby champions it is hoped there will be healthy interest in the Highlanders position.

“We are looking for a quality field to choose from. We are very proud of what we have achieved here already, and we are proud of the environment we have. There’s a very strong sense of community in our Highlanders family and we know that it’s a fantastic place to live and work. We’re looking forward to having someone new add more value to that,” Clark said.

New Zealand Rugby General Manager Rugby Neil Sorensen said the Highlanders had established a strong professional rugby environment under Jamie Joseph and the new Head Coach would build on much of the good work already achieved.

“This is an exciting time for the Highlanders - as current champions they have great momentum heading into the next few years and we are excited about what the future holds for them.”

The Highlanders will work NZ Rugby throughout the recruitment process.