Where do we fit in?

sargeant · Post by **sargeant** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:04 pm

I am with you Big Boy its my personal life that matters to me too.

As to the question if taken from roels post i think its more to do with what strata of Thai society that the Thai comes from

The royal strata seem to be tolerant if a little indifferent to farangs polite respectfull and a little distant

The white chinese which have all the money and all the power and include politicions and high ranking civil service/military/police buksi description seems to fit nicely they dont want farangs only as tourists they see farangs as a threat

middle class thais and business men see farangs as an opportunity and wealth is the only criteria 1 X merc is lower than 2 X mercedes that only lasts as long as the farang has money

The poor tin shack people WERE very respectfull but that is changing rapidly to resentment unfortunately as i have been constantly warning

Most of the posters are in actual fact dealing with the middle classes not the top 2 or the bottom one I have only ever in 10 years seen ONE farang in my tin shack area and that was only because he had taken a wrong turn on his bicycle

Post by **redzonerocker** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:59 pm

showing respect is quite a big difference to having respect for someone!!!!
i think the first thing people should be looking for in a new community or environment is acceptance.
once you have been accepted you then have the chance to earn respect
through your integration, honesty, trust, good manners, positive actions & deeds etc etc.

it will never be an automatic right just because you live in the big house on the hill with a big mercedes in the driveway, whether you're farang or thai!!
money may gain you a level of respect but it won't neccessarily be mutual.
the bows, wais & handshakes will only be superficial!

where & how will i fit in? i will look only to be accepted in my chosen communities. i may then get the chance to earn respect, in time !!!!

Post by **richard** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:19 pm

To me in the village northeast of Khon Kaen I frequent I have earned respect

Advice from her in doors and her family helped a great deal and I learned to take a low respectful profile in the background

Having read a little about traditional Thai culture I thought I knew enough. NO no no as a close friend says 'I've been here 22 years and I'm still learning

Some touching points:

When I'm there the head policeman want to come round for a beer and chat, usually about what's it like in other parts of Thailand, head Monk comes round and invites me to the temple. He always instructs his helpers to get me a chair as he knows I have a bad leg and unable to squat. head teacher comes round and asks me to come and say a few words to his children about Western culture

The most touching was my village wedding which all and sundry (100+) turned up. I was closely guided by my wifes uncle as to what to do and what not to do. After the ceremony i was festooned with 20 and 50 Baht bracelets and I'm thinking 'that's 2 meals in the village, how can they afford it'. The same happens at my Birthday which coincides with Songkran.

Now get this. After my village wedding I was posing for pics and as you know it's not the done thing to hold hands and hug and kiss in public in Thailand. A couple of weather beaten old girls came up to me and bullied into putting an arm round the wife and giving her a kiss on the cheek

I would say that I have their respect and I don't throw money at them. A beer, a fag and basic food is all they will take and only when it is offered. Ok there not top strata Thais but I don't care. Having grown up and attending a top boarding school in Yorkshire I have met all sorts. Genuine ones. Arrogant, pompous bar-stewards and the rest

I respect the Thais in the village too because they all work hard for a pittance and strive to better their children's education

I would add that there were (no longer) other farangs in the village who threw their weight around. I was asked by the police, village elders and close senior members of the family to have a quiet word in their shell likes

Appreciation of where they are coming from I believe helps to understand their plight here. Poor trying to earn a bigger crust than the paddy fields and yet surrounded by rich farang who could buy up the village

Sorry, got to say it it again INTERGRATION

Post by **DawnHRD** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:51 pm

Unless you are incredibly crass, doesn't how you are perceived have more to do with the perceiver than with you?

In my own case, I think I'm viewed by Thais much the same as I am by farang. Some think I'm nice & kind. Some think I'm harmless but a bit deluded. Some think I'm an out & out crackpot etc etc.
Every worker I have had has thought I'm an ATM &/or something to steal from. My attitude towards them has made no difference. My present worker steals one 500bt bag of dog food per day (if she can). It makes no difference that I gave her a job when she was desperate, or that I give her food for her dogs, or that I give her kids money when they come to 'help'. She obviously sees money being spent on dogs when she has little & thinks she's entitled. My attitude has nothing to do with her perception.

I really think, that unless you're a total idiot (and there are some!), how you're seen by Thais has a lot more to do with their expectations, upbringing, education, and experiences than yours.

sargeant · Post by **sargeant** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:52 pm

The wai in my experience is only good manners and only respects age not the person
The bow only indicates status and does in no way indicate respect
ie the younger man will wai first the older man may bow lower

I only consider i am respected by a Thai when they ask me for advice mind you that applies to falangs as well. I am also fully aware and consider it a mild insult when asked advice when the person asking has already decided what he wants and is only asking me to rubber stamp his decision that also applies to falangs

I am however very often asked for advice from my circle of thai friends hence i think i am respected and am (as richard correctly says) integrated size 18

Post by **richard** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:05 pm

Feel sorry for you Dawn

I'm very contented with my life in Thailand

I count myself lucky with my friendship with Thai and farangs

I know the good guys and the bad guys. If not the wife does

I've never been stolen from. Ripped off a little but that is natural all over the globe

In terms of money, I have a tight budget. If I give I usually get back

Super Joe · Post by **Super Joe** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:01 pm

Post by **richard** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:19 am

SJ

what does Pp mean??????????????

Ps To all and sundry I have no chip on my shoulder!!!!!!!!!!

Post by **johnnyk** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:24 am

Up in my friend's mooban I try to muck in, drink with the uncles (their booze and mine) and I went "fishing" in the klong on hands and knees up to the neck in the nam gathering shellfish.
Filthy business it was, but they all approved and I got big smiles and pats on the back. Since then I have been made very welcome and no one has come around trying to bum off me.
Its a bit boring up country but overall I like it. The people for the most part are genuine and I've been well advised by my friend about the ones who aren't.

Post by **DawnHRD** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:29 am

richard wrote:Feel sorry for you Dawn

I'm very contented with my life in Thailand

I count myself lucky with my friendship with Thai and farangs

I know the good guys and the bad guys. If not the wife does

I've never been stolen from. Ripped off a little but that is natural all over the globe

In terms of money, I have a tight budget. If I give I usually get back

Why do you feel sorry for me? I don't. I'm content with my life here, too. I just don't kid myself or generalise. I believe some individual Thais & Farangs like me, some don't & most don't give a toss about me either way. I don't kid myself I'm important to anyone (Thai or farang) or that I'm widely loved or respected. Anyone thinking that of themselves has a rather large ego (IMHO)
As for the workers stealing, it's an irritation, not something I'm angry about, just something I have to work around, causing inconvenience. Why wouldn't they steal from animals? I don't like it, but I can sort of understand it. It's not directed personally towards me.

Post by **margaretcarnes** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:11 am

I see where you're coming from Dawn, but don't underestimate your role in HH. Problem is - as I'm sure you realise, is that doing what you do isn't really understood by many Thais as benefiting the community. From a farang point of view it is more widely appreciated and valued.

Super Joe · Post by **Super Joe** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:59 am

I don't kid myself I'm important to anyone (Thai or farang) or that I'm widely loved or respected. Anyone thinking that of themselves has a rather large ego

Totally agree. There's a lot of that here.

SJ

Post by **johnnyk** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:29 am

... I believe some individual Thais & Farangs like me, some don't & most don't give a toss about me either way.[/quote]

I think that's about right.
Outside of a few, how many Thais do we care about?
If one were to judge falangs from some of the stuff posted, it would seem most falangs have no respect or liking for Thai people, seeing them as irritating, thieving children.
I do suspect their shorts are not in a knot about us, though.

sargeant · Post by **sargeant** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:19 pm

If thinking about and working hard constantly to integrate and working equally as hard to earn my hosts and friends respect is EGO then i am GLAD naye PROUD to say guilty as charged M lud

Post by **DawnHRD** » Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:42 pm

margaretcarnes wrote:I see where you're coming from Dawn, but don't underestimate your role in HH. Problem is - as I'm sure you realise, is that doing what you do isn't really understood by many Thais as benefiting the community. From a farang point of view it is more widely appreciated and valued.

Thanks, Mags, but please don't get me wrong. A lot of people are thinking I'm griping and I'm not. Genuinely. I'm perfectly happy & perfectly OK. The people who matter to me most (my Mum, my little boy & some true friends of various nationalities) love me & I love them. Other than that, I don't really mind how people view me.

I just find those saying on this thread that they are respected by all because they've integrated, slightly deluded. Sure, you need to integrate. I have as well, but I don't feel the need to proclaim it in order to justify myself. Integration still doesn't mean that everyone will respect, love or like you, however. Some will, some won't. That's life.

BTW, Johnnyk, I didn't say anyone was irritating. I said having to work around the stealing was irritating. I don't actually blame nor do I have any hard feelings towards the worker, but that doesn't mean I'm going to provide her with the stuff to steal. If you want to be sanctimonious, be my guest. I'm sorry to have interrupted the mutual backslap between the 'we've integrated & we're loved' society .

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