Where do we fit in?

General chat about life in the Land Of Smiles. Discuss expat life, relationship issues and all things generally Thailand and Asia related.
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margaretcarnes
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Where do we fit in?

Post by margaretcarnes »

Really can't agree with SteveG there on being seen to spend to gain respect, and hope it was said with tongue in cheek Steve!
True - sometimes it might seem that way, but as some have pointed out there are 2 levels of Thai society. Most of us will only ever get to mix with level 2, just as we would never be invited to a Buck House garden party here!
My experience has been pretty much the same as that of VS. Accept people as they are (that goes for wherever you live.) Take an interest and get involved with your neighbours. Accept their hospitality - and remember that it works both ways. Shop where the locals shop. Ask their advice. Above all, smile. :thumb:
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heretostay
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where r we?

Post by heretostay »

In 8 years in Thailand I have never seen anywhere as bad as Hua Hin, everyone wants to take and take, never met a friendly Thai here, after a few encounters the hand comes out, I think everyone on this forum or here has been ripped off somewhere a long the line.

Everyday I here of some farang friend here, who got cheated in a bar, restaurant, shop etc etc

In Bkk I have many Thai friends and associates, who I have known a long time, never asked a favour and keep in contact freq as true friends.

Why cant the locals take friendship as it should be.
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

PS

Better than been in the UK and been classed lower than the poles and immigrants there.
sorry your white F+++ off
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Heretostay but immigration/ inflation made me go away!!!!

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buksida
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Post by buksida »

Its probably more of a case of other farangs doing the ripping off. What you describe happens in any tourist area where prices are artificially elevated, I don't think it is Hua Hin specific.
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Post by Guess »

buksida wrote:Its probably more of a case of other farangs doing the ripping off. What you describe happens in any tourist area where prices are artificially elevated, I don't think it is Hua Hin specific.
Exactement.
lomuamart wrote:
True. Tom Tom Club.
Tina Weymouth. Has she got no teeth then?

Help has come for free in many situations that you would never get in Europe or NA.

If you look at your own countries and try to remember conversations with your peers surely you must have come across many racist or nationalist sentiments even if these are not made public.

Why should Thailand be different.

As for being ripped off in Hua Hin I must point out that the people you meet in bars and restaurants who are taking money from you are not local. This is true of most tourist areas. The locals are already employed or have been made richer by the local land price phenomenon.

If you get out of the rat race of the tourist centres you will find the locals very friendly and no sign of xenophobia.


Something I have to ask here:
richard wrote:
ALL ABOUT INTEGRATION
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Post by Farang »

I wish my INTEGRATION would be size 18. Then I might get the respect.
Alas, my INTEGRATION isn't. Hence the lack of respect, eh?
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Post by MrPlum »

dtaai-maai wrote:The vast majority of farang I've met in Thailand don't have my respect, why should they automatically get it from a Thai?
Couldn't agree more.

Also, how many are from small towns back home, where, even after 25 years, you are still a stranger? Is it very different to being here? I'd say even if the Thais are not welcoming, they aren't hostile either. We're over here taking their women, flashing our cash, while 70% are living in poverty. You would have thought we would be mightily resented. How many coins are scraped down the side of cars? None that I've heard of.

I found that in business here I was treated extremely well. Of course, as a buyer, I would be.

Outside of work, I usually wear a shirt with a collar and picking up the child from school I will wear long trousers and shoes. The Thais I bump into think I'm a doctor. The image evaporates when I arrive to collect her in a 12 year old pickup. However, I still receive respect from the staff.

The pecking order thing can be a bit tricky. In G'n'Tung? The supermarket. The owner sometimes comes into the shop and helps at the checkout. He looks totally nondescript. Thankfully I didn't tell him to get his mucky paws off my shopping. Appearances can be deceiving and you never know, you might offend the wrong man and live to regret it.

All in all I haven't had an incident I recollect of feeling snubbed or looked down on. Perhaps because I deliberately tell myself I'm a guest so as not to develop any notions of superiority.

I don't go around wondering whether I fit in or how I fit in. I just get on and don't worry what others think about me. If I'm getting it wrong, I have no doubt that someone out there will let me know. Those who seem to find it hardest to fit in might want to look inside rather than outside for the reason. :guns:
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Post by Spitfire »

Good post Mr Plum and dtaai-maai is on a good train of thought there aswell, agree with all that have said respect etc has to be earned.

I posted this from watching the locals reactions to many different 'types' of farangs, in different places, from their appearance and other variables that I mentioned in the original post.

Another reason it was posted was an experience I had at a small 'Mom and Pop' store in Nong Khai.

Which was,

I was staying round the corner from the shop in a hotel and needed some shaving foam, so just before I did the shower, shit and shave thing, I quickly slung on some shorts, vest and trainers. Then wandered down to the closest shop and to be honest, was treated like many earlier posters suggested.

The interesting thing was that later that same evening after I had showered etc and put on clean new jeans, shirt with a collar, being clean shaven, black shoes etc, I went to buy some cigarettes and the same women served me, it was straight away, even though there were others waiting. This was a little depressing and made me feel bad as some of those waiting were locals. I tried to say that it's OK and that I'd wait, but she was having none of it.

The crazy thing was that she did not even recognise me from 2 hours ago. :shock:

That's why it makes me wonder sometimes. Good posts everyone.

Edited for spelling
Last edited by Spitfire on Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by kendo »

O.K long chat with the wife about this, Where do we fit in, right with Thai people they expect very old fashoned level of respect, i will use the name Duan to try and put this point across.
If someone called Duan, is older than you you would call her Pii Duan, this means older person and to show them respect, like a very polite partical.
If someone called Duan, is about the same age, you would just call her Duan, same level of respect to each other.
If someone called Duan, is younger than you, you would call her Noong Daun, because you expect a high level of respect from someone younger than you.
It is very difficult for farangs to understand all the social levels, and dont forget, are cultures have developed separately over many thousands of years and most of us dont really know how to grasp this very complex structure.
I think spending time up in our Isaan village is very different than spending time in a tourist area like HH, up in our village everyone is nice and friendly and i feel very welcome, like VS Richard and DM the willingness to help or to give you some fruit, or to dive into the reservoir, to un snag my fishing line is lovely.
I dont really want to look to deeply into where we fit in , i regard myself as a guest, and respect is not the right of any person that does not want to show it first, many farangs will blow up at Thais and treat them in a very rude manner, Thais feel that farangs can come over here with there money and do wot they like and not really have any regard for there culture.Thai people are very calm and tolorent of us to a point, it normaly takes a lot for a Thai to loose there temper, but god, when they do its fireworks ! when a farang looses his temper with a Thai it is normaly over quickly but the Thai thinks it's like smacking a dog on the head and petting it 2 minuites later.
My wife just wants to throw this in, after i lost my rag with MIB in the airport, if you get stopped by the MIB sawadee him with your hands, call him Pii Dtam ruat, he will regard this that you think he is important and that you want to show respect to him, and might help you get off, or get a smaller fine for your very naughty driving manoeuvre, also use Pii in offical buildings you might get delt with quicker if they think you are trying your hardest to be polite and show respect.
Sandman told me about a book called, good medicine for thailand fever it's a road map for Thai western relationships and is writen half in english and half in thai myself and the wife are both reading it, it does help you understand the culture difference and well worth the perchase. :D :cheers: :D
Last edited by kendo on Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by richard »

Kendo

Spot on

Up in Isaan I've made mistakes. Arm round a headmaster for a photo, bucket full of water over a senior monk at Songkran, feet pointing at a senior police officer whilst eating on his mat with other officers

Got bollocked by the wife but they all just laughed and the monk who I gave a high wai too came over and said to me in English 'don't worry, you are a farang and still learning'

Smile, apologise and high wai them :D :D
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Post by Big Boy »

I'm sorry richard and kendo, but your experiences don't reflect mine. In my wife's village I feel that the begging bowl is constantly out. One hand holds out the bowl, while the other hand twists the knife. This is not only from relatives, but from all residents.

They put my wife under so much pressure for money in 1994 that she had a very serious breakdown, which in turn saw her in and out of hospital for 2 years. My wife can no longer return to within 100 miles of her village without suffering a re-occurrence.

I am not saying that all Isaan villages are the same, but my wife's village is full of lazy layabouts, who do not work. They send their women out to attract Farang men back to the village to screw them for as much as they can. Smiles to your face, daggers in your back. Its not just me, but I've seen them rip dozens of Farang off for big money before dumping them.

Thankfully, we have never experienced a similar 'beggig bowl' culture in Hua Hin.

Yes, I know that we all get ripped off from time to time in Hua Hin, but that is just the bigger game that we are all playing, and on a much smaller scale. In a society where barter is the name of the game, some will be better at it than others. At the end of the day most of us are happy with what we've paid, and most believe they've got a bargain ............ even if they have been ripped off.
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Post by Jockey »

richard wrote:Arm round a headmaster for a photo, bucket full of water over a senior monk at Songkran,
That kind of behavior is inappropriate in ANY country!
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Post by Vital Spark »

Big Boy: Interesting post - and I'm not surprised, but I'm saddened, that you and your wife were treated that way. It's sad that falang men with Thai girlfriends (or wives) are looked upon as walking ATMs. Some of them are, and quite understandably, the rural Thais are going to stereotype every farang.

We don't live in Isaan and we're a farang couple living in rural Thailand. Quite rare, I guess. We're not that far from Hua Hin and I suspect the stereotype of a male falang does filter through, albeit to a lesser extent, in this area. It's interesting that if Parahandy (aka hubby) goes into a strange shop or market without me, he often gets a pretty cool, and sometimes off-hand, reception. When I'm with him it's completely different - smiles all round.

If you get to know them, and they get to know you (and I'm not talking about G & T's on the veranda :P ) then you can earn their respect and visa versa.

VS

PS. Good topic Spitfire - a lot of food for thought...
Last edited by Vital Spark on Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Super Joe »

Big Boy wrote:
They put my wife under so much pressure for money in 1994 that she had a very serious breakdown, which in turn saw her in and out of hospital for 2 years.
That's horrendous Big Boy. In the early days when I didn't give anything my missus had pressure. Their line of attack was that she now has a better life so has forgotten them, and her roots, despite the fact that she rang all the time and went there often. Snidy *****. They were literally fighting with a girl they'd known and loved for 21 years just cos she wouldn't extract money from her new husband to give them. They were all smiles with me though and I was the one not giving, keeping their options open.
Now we are giving she is the golden girl all of a sudden.

They don't have much regard for us IMO, it's all false and based on what they get now or hope to get in the future.

SJ
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Post by johnnyk »

richard wrote:Kendo

Spot on

Up in Isaan I've made mistakes. Arm round a headmaster for a photo, bucket full of water over a senior monk at Songkran, feet pointing at a senior police officer whilst eating on his mat with other officers

Got bollocked by the wife but they all just laughed and the monk who I gave a high wai too came over and said to me in English 'don't worry, you are a farang and still learning'

Smile, apologise and high wai them :D :D
I made a gaffe up in Lopburi when I raised my glass "To the King!"
Right away I saw the frowns and knew I'd stepped in it.
I scrambled and said in Canada/UK its a way of saying "Long Live the King/Queen!"
The smiles came out, all was well and I'd learned a nice small lesson without anyone bollocking me. :thumb:
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Post by sargeant »

I wish I could say im shocked at BBs story, saddened I really am, but shocked no.
I have said it before on this forum it is not the girl/wife of the falang that is bad here, it is there peers family and friends that are the problem.
My first experience (1st Thai wife madam saddam) (of the get the falang to give), was an alleged breakin at my house just outside Don Muang airport (20 years ago). With a suitcase of tools to fix said roof of I flew on my free ticket to find A. there had been no breakin where my sister in law pointed at the ceiling I found my fishing tackle exactly where I had left it. B. it was a scam on her own sister to pay her gambling debts. SOD OFF says I.
When I went to the UK for 6 yes only 6 weeks (for my heart probs) when I came back mrs sarge (hyde) was gone and mrs jekyl was in free flight half a bottle of song sam a night every night, she had got in with a really heavy drinking crowd who were experts at blowing warm air up her bum. We fought we argued and yes it got physical I was at my wits end it was a choice throw her out and start again or keep fighting in spite of the toll on my health I love her and I kept fighting. (BB visited me at that time I must say I was a very preoccupied host sorry BB)
One whole year and then eureka I thought I have got it and she handed me the key without realizing it. I had banned her from seeing these people but knew she was still (Mah yah gon) disappearing to them on so called business I could smell the whiskey when she came home.
She said quote “I NO have freedom” I knew where that came from. So I being a gentleman said ok sweetheart I GIVE you your freedom you can go and see who when and where you like from now on its up to you.
I went to her purse removed all MY cards My bank book and ATM card and all cash.
She said what you doing I said I have my freedom now same same you, I spend my money how I want to, and on who I want to, you will not be able to spend my money on arseholes who only want you because you buy the whiskey
Off she went and it did take about 5 days she was all smiles but then after going out the next night she came back within the hour I asked why and she said I no have money and they go to karaoke. The next day the same and a few days after that
guess what suddenly she was not wanted in the clique SHE COULDN’T BUY THEIR DRINKS FOR THEM she spits at them if she sees them now but it took a very very painful and hurtfull year for me
So please don’t think it only applies to falangs our wives and girlfriends get taken and are victims of aresholes as well
Lesson for newbies watch your girlfriends, friends very carefully they are the problem
Mrs jekyl has now gone and mrs Sarge is back fine
To our close friends in quiet conversation I have picked up some respect for sticking with it, to the arseholes that had their gravy boat sunk I am probably what buksi described do I care what they think answers on a postcard please
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