Global Warming/Climate Change 2

[redzonerocker]

Is peer reviewed the new physics??

[STEVE G]

Is peer reviewed the new physics??

Someone decided that they don't trust anything that's not peer reviewed.

[sargeant]

Looks like my star pupils require extra tuition

lesson 1.-----sarcastic humour
winkie if you are going to quote quote it all leaving out the punchline removes the humour (spelt with a U)

not once in 22 years did that mean I would allow someone to talk bollocks (foul language sorry) UNCHALLENGED

it also leaves you open to the as already pointed out to you criticism of your reading and posting ability see wot i meen

lesson 2.-----dialect
homer yes I do talk like wot I are, a squaddie, do please make allowances and get with the humour programme

so where are we at

lets try a sort of clarification of our various stances on this:-

I will make a blind leap of faith and presume the three of us each have a partner with whom we sleep at night. I will also presume our parters spend an inordinate amount of time showering,washing and applying sweet smelling fragrances to themselves.

However what do the three must get ears do when said partner within the confines of the bed chamber unlocks one of her methane emissions

Lets start with winkie :- he will want to examine said phenomena more closely over a much longer period and as often as his parter can provide said phenomena and only then will he decide if it is a fury animal ,elephant or a methane emission (I did not put fart as I dont want to upset winkies sensitive constitution with more foul language) and just to help winkie the fury bit in very close proximity to the sight of said emissions is not an animal

now Homer:- not claiming to be so scientific he will demand a peer review (3 in a bed)
but hey whatever turns you on. After all if you cant work it out for yourself and dont trust your own nose there just are no other options.

well sarge who is known to be stupid :- well sarge quietly slides out of bed and quietly closes the door as he leaves. He then goes into the garden and has a cigarette. (please note stupid I may be but I do not light up until I am well clear) I learnt in science class 50 (fifty to you) years ago methane is inflammable.

Lesson 3. logic and simple squaddie use of English language :-
as you well know English is very open to misreading and misunderstanding wot wiv spellink and puncturation and wot ave u.

1.- in the old days when coming under fire from the enemy we shouted GET DOWN this resulted in many coloured soldiers dying as they stood up and danced
2.- so being logical we changed the call to GET YOUR F******* HEADS DOWN this was far to many words and we lost a lot of soldiers
3.-it had to be changed and it was decided INCOMING stopped the dancing and was quick enough to reduce casualties

you see squaddies are logical and can work fings out

2nd Lieutenants are still the rank with the highest attrition rate being upper class and pedantic on spelling and fine language this is because when a 2nd Lieutenant stands up and says :-
I SAY CHAPS (trying to ingratiate himself with the peasants) I think we should take some evasive action due to the mortar fire or is it howitzer shells we are under

you see pupils the 2nd Lieutenants arse is toast long before he says chaps

just a small aside when asked what rank i was i always reply staff sergeant except when i was acting sergeant major
then i was god

i dont think any of this humour will rub off

[dtaai-maai]

<yawn>

[sargeant]

as normal DM proves me correct thankyou for being so humourless (my deep felt sympathy to you)

i dont think any of this humour will rub off

[STEVE G]

The Russians don't seem to have as much doubt about the issue:

Melting Polar ice cap promotes Arctic shelf exploration


The Polar ice cap is melting and as a result, the Arctic will become ice-free. All this will radically change the conditions for the development of the shelf which is rich in oil, gas and minerals.

In the past 30 years, the size of the summer ice cap in the Arctic has reduced by 3 times. According to experts, in 20 years, the northern seas will be completely ice-free in the summer. Moreover, by 2060, the Arctic ice cap will disappear. Consequently, the companies developing oil and gas deposits on the shelf will get ample opportunities. The risk of oil spills under the ice layer in case of technological disasters will sharply fall. There will be no need to build expensive icebreakers and tankers, which were essential when the Arctic was covered with an ice layer. At the same time, melting ice in the Arctic creates specific problems, says Alexei Kokorin, a coordinator for Russia’s WWF Climate Change Programme.

“The destruction of the ice cap and glaciers will lead to the appearance of ice floes which pose a serious danger to ships. There is a need to create a reliable system to monitor the movements of ice floes. This means we must not show unwarranted optimism in our approach towards the development of the Arctic shelf,” Alexei Kokorin said.

Then head of Russian Energy Development Fund, Sergei Pikin agrees partially with the ecologist.

“It’s really simple to develop the Arctic shelf because its climatic characteristics are very similar to that of the North Sea shelf. The technology of oil and gas development in the Arctic is comparable to the one used in the North Sea. However, I do not think that all this is quite simple and we should wait until 2060 and then start investing money in the Arctic,” says Sergei Pikin.

To confirm his opinion, Sergei Pikin gives the following argument.

“As a result of melting ice the ocean level of will rise and the direction of various streams will change. This does not mean that we will get favourable conditions for life-sustaining activity in the Arctic. On the other hand, perhaps Europe might be unsuitable for living and all residents will shift to the Arctic. We see that the weather is becoming more changeable. At present, ice is melting but this may take a U-turn in several decades. By now, no one can forecast what will happen in the future. For one, in the 90s, neither ecologists nor meteorologists forecast that the planet would face global warming in the future,” Sergei Pikin said.

Meanwhile, global warming has led to the melting of permafrost in northern Russia. According to Alexei Kokorin, as a result, Russia loses up to 30 square kilometers of its territory annually. The reason here is that the lesser the ice in the Arctic, the more open water and waves. Moreover, a rise in temperature and heavy winds speeds up coastline erosion. Experts insist that owing to permafrost melting a large area in northern Russia will turn into a marshy land. In these conditions, it will be very difficult for people to live there and carry out economic activity. In short, warming in the Arctic paves the way for spending less money to develop the Arctic shelf but more money will be needed for the rehabilitation of marshy lands in northern Russia.
http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/12/16/62352604.html

[hhfarang]

as a result, Russia loses up to 30 square kilometers of its territory annually.

I wonder where they relocated the gulags to?

[redzonerocker]

The Russians don't seem to have as much doubt about the issue:

So why are they intending to withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol along with Japan? . . . . after all the fuss has died down with Canada's withdrawal of course

Why do the Canadians want out?
A $14billion bill for carbon credits because they won't meet their targets, whilst 'emerging' industrialised countries, who are amongst the biggest polluters (China, Brazil, India & S Africa) get no targets & no penalties at all
A no brainer really

[STEVE G]

The Russians don't seem to have as much doubt about the issue:

So why are they intending to withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol along with Japan? . . . . after all the fuss has died down with Canada's withdrawal of course

Why do the Canadians want out?
A $14billion bill for carbon credits because they won't meet their targets, whilst 'emerging' industrialised countries, who are amongst the biggest polluters (China, Brazil, India & S Africa) get no targets & no penalties at all
A no brainer really

As the article makes clear, Russia stands to gain financially from the exploitation of Arctic oil as does Canada.

[Homer]

Someone decided that they don't trust anything that's not peer reviewed.

If it's not peer reviewed it's a press release, guaranteed like all press releases to be both 100% factual and 100% free from conflict of interest.

Science by press release leads to believing in concepts like Cold Fusion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion or AGW.

[redzonerocker]

As the article makes clear, Russia stands to gain financially from the exploitation of Arctic oil as does Canada.

Not quite sure it's exploitation
I'm sure the Canadians are over the moon, saving all that money on carbon tax & raking in quite a few billion more through oil sales

A bit more competition for the Middle East is not a bad thing either

[hhfarang]

A bit more competition for the Middle East is not a bad thing either

Yes, many in the U.S. are backing the construction of the Keystone Pipeline that will run from Canada to refineries in the U.S. Environmentalists and most Democrats are blocking it so far but Obama has to make up his mind yea or nay within two months according to a bill just passed.

This would help Canada with oil revenue (and from the U.S. instead of China where they will sell it if we don't build the pipeline) and help cut the U.S. dependence on middle east oil. Obama is trying to stall the decision of whether to allow it to proceed or not until after the election next year because no matter which way it goes, some voters will not be happy.

If a pipeline is built in a careful way, I don't see how it would have any more impact than a transcontinental highway with protecting fences on both sides which we have many of.

[Homer]

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" --- Chicken Little and others.
A common idiom indicating a hysterical or mistaken belief that disaster is imminent.

A NY Times article about the arctic "methane time bomb" quotes one climate scientist near the end of the article (which is where they always bury truths inconvenient to their left partisan position): “We expect increased thermokarst activity could be a very strong effect, but we don’t really know,” said Guido Grosse, another scientist at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks." http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/17/scien ... =cse&scp=1

The times also reported on a different view of the not new phenomenon, this time from a peer reviewed scientific journal: [T]he authors found that roughly 1 meter of the subsurface permafrost thawed in the past 25 years, adding to the 25 meters of already thawed soil. Forecasting the expected future permafrost thaw, the authors found that even under the most extreme climatic scenario tested this thawed soil growth will not exceed 10 meters by 2100 or 50 meters by the turn of the next millennium. The authors note that the bulk of the methane stores in the east Siberian shelf are trapped roughly 200 meters below the seafloor… http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... ane&st=cse

[dtaai-maai]

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" --- Chicken Little and others.

But if it is falling, the ostrich won't see it as it has its head up its - I mean in the sand.

[STEVE G]

The times also reported on a different view of the not new phenomenon, this time from a peer reviewed scientific journal: [T]he authors found that roughly 1 meter of the subsurface permafrost thawed in the past 25 years, adding to the 25 meters of already thawed soil. Forecasting the expected future permafrost thaw, the authors found that even under the most extreme climatic scenario tested this thawed soil growth will not exceed 10 meters by 2100 or 50 meters by the turn of the next millennium. The authors note that the bulk of the methane stores in the east Siberian shelf are trapped roughly 200 meters below the seafloor… http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... ane&st=cse

The report referred to here, although published in December, was submitted in April prior to the discovery of the larger methane plumes in September so the permafrost thaw that the authors were forcasting may be already incorrect.